When Fiction Gets Work Flat Out Wrong

Recently, AAR’s Maggie Boyd reviewed the book Starlight on Willow Lake, and one of the reasons it received a C- from her was the unrealistic depiction of the heroine’s career. This got me thinking about romances and careers. We are all (mostly!) experts on our own day jobs, from stay-at-home parenting to freelance journalism to brain surgery, and seeing our lives depicted inaccurately can be very jarring in a book.

For me, as a historian, I was never able to get into Lauren Willig. I tried The Secret History of the Pink Carnation, which includes a plot in the past running opposite modern historians doing research, and it didn’t look like history at all. While her researchers were reconstructing individual conversations (if I recall, and it was years ago, they happened to be recorded in a diary), I was in the middle of a project trying to find out if a woman I was researching had four children or five, and what years they were born. The level of specificity of the Willig sources (written by people theoretically spying, who shouldn’t have written things down!) felt just absurd. I don’t know if her later books change this, or even if that book improved by the end, because I DNFed it.

I had the same problem with a non-romance, Elizabeth Kostova’s The Historian, because her characters were reading old sources at a rate that matched the unfolding of the plot. A letter (again, it was years ago, so it might have been a diary entry) would talk about Turkey, so they’d go there, then read the next letter, which talked about Romania, or whatever… it was ridiculous. Real people would have read all the letters before setting out anywhere. The only reason they didn’t is that later letters revealed plot points, so the author had to force them to happen later in the book. It annoyed me so much that the book was another DNF even though her writing was marvelous.

I asked AAR staffers to weigh in with how their professional lives affected their romance reading.

Maggie elaborated on her Starlight on Willow Lake critique: As someone who works in and employs people for the home health industry I found the description of Faith McCallum’s job completely improbable…. the heroine is lauded for her work in the field, has excellent references and yet is out of work for three months. It’s dependent on location of course but few home health workers have problems finding jobs. It’s a low paying field with taxing work; we are normally begging for employees. Most agencies I know keep a “Help Wanted” ad running year around because help really is always wanted. I also found it awkward that Faith treated Mason [fusion_builder_container hundred_percent=”yes” overflow=”visible”][fusion_builder_row][fusion_builder_column type=”1_1″ background_position=”left top” background_color=”” border_size=”” border_color=”” border_style=”solid” spacing=”yes” background_image=”” background_repeat=”no-repeat” padding=”” margin_top=”0px” margin_bottom=”0px” class=”” id=”” animation_type=”” animation_speed=”0.3″ animation_direction=”left” hide_on_mobile=”no” center_content=”no” min_height=”none”][the hero] as her employer [when his mother Alice was the patient]. Technically, he is paying her salary, but in medicine it is the patient who is treated as the client, and confidentiality laws tend to protect them. I found it odd that Alice was treated by Faith, a supposedly experienced care worker, as someone who had no right to privacy. Icing the cake for me was Faith’s complete lack of professionalism. She accepted expensive gifts from the client, which is strongly frowned upon. She brought her children to her interview and had them repeatedly interact with the patient. She seemed to draw no lines between her work and private life.

Lee: The book that bothered me a LOT was Grace Burrowes’ A Single Kiss. And yes, she is a lawyer in real life though I suspect she’s a single practitioner. Anyhoo, in A Single Kiss one of the partners is constantly hitting on and touching a new hire, a female associate. There is just no way that that is acceptable behavior. And the fact that the associate didn’t see anything wrong with it just made me roll my eyes over and over again. In real life, the female associate would speak to the HR person and the other partners would speak to the idiot saying things like “Are you crazy?!?! Do you want to have the EEOC file a complaint against us?”

Lynn: As a lawyer, I find myself getting frustrated with a variety of things having to do with depiction of the profession. However, the lack of awareness regarding ethics rules for dealing with clients is what truly gets me going. I’ve read a few books from various Harlequin lines that center on an attorney who just KNOWS her criminal defense client is innocent. And they start a relationship while she’s representing him.  Um…no. Sleeping with your clients is barred by the ethics rules in many states and I’ve seen attorneys get suspended or disbarred for it.

I’ve also read a few small-town romances where the attorney character blabs personal client business to others in town, supposedly for their client’s own good or to play matchmaker for their unwitting clients.  I guess the term “attorney-client privilege” didn’t sink in with these folks.

On a more positive note, I have enjoyed some lawyer romances. Do-Over by Dorien Kelly and Practice Makes Perfect  by Julie James are both good ones. I have my minor quibbles, but overall, both authors a good job of showing the weird combination of high stress and tedium that can go into a civil practice. Law has its moments, but it’s definitely not all courtroom drama.

Anne: This is one reason I’m glad so few writers find copyeditors interesting. I’ve never come across a romance where someone is trying to edit articles from a weekly science journal — probably because reading about that would be like watching paint dry. If somebody did start a trend of romances about copyeditors (eek!), I’d probably find all sorts of distracting errors. (“See edited an article with 256 references in a couple of hours?! WTH?!”)

OTOH I will point out that office workers in novels rarely worry about a long commute and rarely get stuck in a traffic jam — unless it’s romantic suspense story where the characters are trying to stop the villain before it’s too late.  They all seem to pop into the office as if they have transporters. Even lower level employees who could not afford apartments near the office seem to live nearby. So we already know that quite often, characters are in what I’d call “JobLand” rather than in something resembling a real job.

Haley: I see librarians in books sometimes but it’s always a very flat depiction. It’s rare that there’s any sort of description of what they actually do during the day. It’s like authors think they want a character to be bookish/shy/reserved so librarian is the career of choice. Yet most librarians have to be outgoing because our job is customer service, community outreach, programs, etc.

Melanie: Yes. This. Librarians seem to come in one of two categories – either the shy, bookish type who became a librarian to read all day (I wish!), or the secret sex kitten. And generally, the sex kitten is an erotica-only occurrence. Librarianship is actually a service industry. I don’t know about others, but I spend the vast majority of my day talking with students at my university, supervising other staff and student workers, and dealing with problems. I would absolutely love to spend my day reading books, though!

Blythe: I get irrationally annoyed when books make mistakes involving academia. I don’t know whether it was too many years of either being in grad school or seeing someone go through it, but I’ve read books with someone faking a degree and getting a job as a professor, books where someone is still working on a dissertation and somehow up for a job as head of a department, and one ridiculous book where the hero was something like 27 and had THREE PhDs. This was She Who Dares, Wins by Candace Havens. I could not handle this. And then there’s the famous Ana or whatever her name is from Fifty Shades who sails through college with no email address. Sometimes I just can’t suspend the disbelief.

Mary: It’s not my day job, but I read one YA novel where the hero had graduated from college, joined the police force, made detective and was the most valuable member of the force at the ripe old age of 23 or 24. That gave him a year or two to surpass all the veterans.  Quite a feat.

Jenna: Yes, I read and reviewed a book which featured a hero who was a retired Navy SEAL at the ripe old age of 27-28ish, and he’d been in the teams for 10 years. Given the fact that he couldn’t even enlist until the age of 18 plus the years of training to become an active SEAL, the whole thing was beyond eye-roll inducing.

Dabney: My husband is a plastic surgeon and I help run his practice. Plastic surgeons tend to come in two flavors in Romanceland. There’s either the “I’ve never done a boob job in my life. I only fix cleft palates.” types–a character in Kristan Higgins’ If You Only Knew was of this ilk. Or there’s the “I have no soul and I only make the plight of the average woman worse by encouraging women to alter themselves in destructive ways” villain types. The truth is more complicated. Most plastic surgeons have a practice that is somewhere in between. The doc who does boob jobs is also gifted at post-breast cancer reconstruction. The practitioner who does TCA peels also removes and minimizes the scars on many a skin cancer victim. Few specialities require more training. I’ve met many many plastic surgeons in the past three decades and most of them are sane “I’m here for the patient” types.

This bias extends to women who’ve had plastic surgery. Read a book where a woman has implants? I’m willing to bet (Jill Sorenson’s Backwoods is an exception) she’s the bitch of the piece. It’s estimated that almost 5% of adult American women have breast implants. Are they all nightmares? Not in my experience.

What about you? Have you ever read a hero/heroine who shared your day job? How do authors do at depicting your work? When they make ridiculous mistakes, can you overlook it, or is that a deal-breaker for you?

 

Caroline Russomanno[/fusion_builder_column][/fusion_builder_row][/fusion_builder_container]

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Eliza
Eliza
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09/19/2015 8:05 pm

HBO said: “”And as Mark Twain said ‘Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn’t.'””

Exactly. And here’s an appropriate for this thread, similar thought made by Byron prior to Twain’s birth:

“”This proverbial saying is attributed to, and almost certainly coined by, Lord Byron, in the satirical poem Don Juan, 1823″”:

‘ Tis strange – but true; for truth is always strange;
Stranger than fiction; if it could be told,
How much would novels gain by the exchange!
How differently the world would men behold!
How oft would vice and virtue places change!
The new world would be nothing to the old,
If some Columbus of the moral seas
Would show mankind their souls’ antipodes.

HBO
HBO
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Reply to  Eliza
09/20/2015 12:02 pm

Thanks Eliza! I had forgotten about Byron’s poem.

maggie b.
maggie b.
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09/18/2015 8:22 am

I don’t know that I read to escape so much as I read for enjoyment but I certainly don’t look for complete reality in my books or other entertainment. I accepted long ago, for example, that law enforcement in romance novels bares little resemblance to police work in real life. But some things stretch my suspension of disbelief to the breaking point and one of those things is a complete breakdown of employment ethics. Medical provider/patient confidentiality is something that most people outside of medical care are familiar with. For example, to make doctor appointments for my sons who are now over 18 I had to have written consent forms. Parents who are caregivers to folks who can’t write written consent forms must have legal guardianship, even if it is perfectly clear the person can’t care for themselves. People caring for elderly parents need paperwork as well and that paperwork is not transferable from one caregiver to the next. So this was a common sense issue for me, not a work issue when I critiqued the book. And taking your child to a work interview just seemed ludicrous to me not as an employer but as a person.

Everyone’s suspension of disbelief is different. My father can’t read science fiction at all, he calls it all silly. I love the stuff. But I think most of us can agree that a certain amount of reality is needed to keep a tale grounded, especially in a contemporary novel where we are familiar with the world in which it is taking place. When people complain about these issues is not so much nit picking as simply pointing out a flaw which tripped them up and might trip up others. It’s up to the reader of those critiques to determine if that will matter to them or not.

Blackjack1
Blackjack1
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Reply to  maggie b.
09/18/2015 4:42 pm

I agree with what you’ve written. I think in a similar way the teacher-readers here were mostly expressing disapproval for ethical problems, especially the portrayal of teacher-student relationships as romantic ones. Perhaps like the medical provider/patient confidentiality, there are ethical lines that are troubling when crossed. I usually laugh off portrays of twenty-something instructors becoming tenured dept. chairs as sheer fantasy and continue reading if the book is interesting. I don’t really laugh off relationships that are damaging to those without power in a relationship, such as students, because those are potentially quite damaging to people. Those scenarios are far from escapist for me.

MD
MD
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Reply to  Blackjack1
09/19/2015 2:50 pm

Yes, I think that’s exactly right to me as well. I am equally bothered by boss-underling romances, attorney-client, etc. This breaks my suspension of disbelief and raises power imbalance and ethics issues that are just too troubling.

I guess I personally find it more difficult to laugh off a 20-something immediately getting tenure, because I have seen too much of discrimination and other very real problems, and therefore this pulls me out of the story reminding me of the realities. On the other hand, yes, I am a lot more likely to dismiss this as a stupidity if the rest of the book works, as compared to anything that has serious ethical implications.

Blackjack1
Blackjack1
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Reply to  MD
09/20/2015 5:33 pm

Yes, I agree, and I think most authors are looking for some degree of verisimilitude in their writing, which is why they often have an acknowledgment page for the specialists that have contributed to their research. I sure I’m not the only reader that takes the time to read the afterwords in which an author reviews their own particular research process and tidbits they stumbled upon. I know I’ve enjoyed Anna Lee Huber’s afterwords on medical phenomena she’s encountered while writing about autopsies, grave-digging, early photography and painting, medical practices in “”insane asylums,”” etc., in the Lady Darby romance-mystery series. Kind of fascinating stuff and very much dependent on a writer taking time to do their research. So, I think what we’re critical of here is when, as AAR’s Caroline says above, authors get it “”flat out”” wrong, not just a little wrong. It’s not nitpicky to me at all to have an author consider at the very least the legal implications, for instance, of having students and professors carry on with an affair.

HBO
HBO
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09/17/2015 8:36 pm

Late to the conversation…Of course real life is never as glamorous as on the written pages of a romance novel. But this post (to me) begs the question: Why then are we reading romance, if stories are not realistic? It’s surely not to read a story that mirrors our own lives. I read to escape, even for just for a few hours, reality. And what makes a book/author work for me is well-written prose and likable characters. Are there some authors whose books/writing make my reading experience more enjoyable? For sure! And I always appreciate authors like Lauren Willig, Jo Beverley, Carla Kelly–just to name a few–who add “”historical notes”” at the end of their books. I know my post is simplifying the issue, but what works for one reader does not necessarily work for another. And as Mark Twain said “Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn’t.”

Dabney Grinnan
Dabney Grinnan
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09/16/2015 11:00 am

I’d like to thank Caroline for putting this post together. All of the work done at AAR is unpaid, done simply for the love of the genre and readers. An entry like this one–and thanks to all the staff who sent Caroline their replies–takes time and effort.

Thanks to all the authors, like Ms. Willig, who continue to engage with and support our site. We love being a place that authors, readers, and bloggers can come together, argue and learn about romance.

And thanks to all our readers, even the ones we annoy. Without your interaction and support, we wouldn’t be here. You encourage us to be better and for that we are grateful.

CarolineAAR
CarolineAAR
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Reply to  Dabney Grinnan
09/16/2015 2:47 pm

Thank you, Dabney.

Melanie
Melanie
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Reply to  Dabney Grinnan
09/16/2015 4:52 pm

Well said, Dabney! Thank you ^_^

Eliza
Eliza
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09/15/2015 9:29 pm

I, on the other hand, admit I wished I had not spent my time on this blog and will not make the same mistake again. Why? For starters, the title “”Work Flat Out Wrong”” and an early critique of the Pink Carnation which was ably refuted by Lauren Willig’s response of “”a wide range of realities in any given field”” had little effect if any on widening the field of responses or POVs, and continued on its intended course of garnering complaints (ok, ok, “”critiques,”” I’m sure someone will insist). Was the opportunity to engage the two authors who replied truly taken up? Not really, IMO. (I know, I know, it’s a reader’s board, right?) And we heard the all too familiar replies yet again about doctor husbands and the academic world.

This blog illustrates a few of the reasons I think the number of posts are noticeably declining at this site especially for those readers who want to truly enjoy romance books, and for those who don’t want to sound like part of a gaggle of critical teens grouped together in a high school corridor (since education was mentioned) supporting whatever the rest of group says. And remember the “”douchebag”” and “”skank”” hoopla? Repeated delays in posting new monthly releases? The noticeable diminishment of advertising? I thought that the message thread called “”Is the romance community dying (or dead)?”” worth a re-read at this point. http://www.likesbooks.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=12203

Sheri Cobb South
Sheri Cobb South
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Reply to  Eliza
09/16/2015 12:03 am

“”The noticeable diminishment of advertising?””

Maybe there’s less advertising because authors who want to advertise can’t get a response? Back during the spring, I sent repeated emails trying to place an ad for my upcoming (releasing tomorrow!!!) Regency mystery, DINNER MOST DEADLY, but never got any response. I assumed either the advertising space was booked up, or else the Powers That Be weren’t interested. :-(

maggie b.
maggie b.
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Reply to  Sheri Cobb South
09/17/2015 12:49 pm

I think Dabney addressed this further down but I did want Ms. Cobb South to know that we appreciate her mention of this issue and that it is being addressed. Speaking not as management but as a member of the staff I can assure you that we do take things like this seriously and that we are all sorry it happened.

CarolineAAR
CarolineAAR
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Reply to  Eliza
09/16/2015 2:46 pm

I would just like to mention that I did reply to Ms. Willig here in the comments, soliciting recommendations for sources and archives which represent a side of research I have not experienced. She may be too busy to write back, which I completely understand. If any readers know of any, please let me know. In the meantime, I’ve been poking around myself and will report back if I find something engaging.

Blackjack1
Blackjack1
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09/15/2015 7:05 pm

Dabney Grinnan: That now strikes me as very very odd. This would indeed make a great blog post.

It would make a great blog and I hope someone writes it. There has been so much research on the feminization of teaching. In humanities, especially in the field of writing, “”mothering discourse”” is a term now widely used. I’m drawn to this topic as a teacher and the issue comes up frequently in faculty meetings, especially around student perceptions of their teachers based on gender expectations. I would be so curious to look at some romances that feature men as teachers, especially K-12 teachers, as I’m curious how romance writers are depicting them. Good blog overall this week though. I’ve enjoyed reading the responses!

CarolineAAR
CarolineAAR
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Reply to  Blackjack1
09/16/2015 2:29 pm

Thank you, Blackjack. I enjoyed hearing from many readers.

Dabney Grinnan
Dabney Grinnan
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09/15/2015 8:02 am

CarolineAAR: You’re right that there are more men in secondary than elementary education, but I looked it up and secondary education is still 60% female in the U.S. on average. Definitely not in fiction!

Oh, I know. It’s “”women’s work.””

CarolineAAR
CarolineAAR
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Reply to  Dabney Grinnan
09/15/2015 9:35 am

Which is what makes it odd to me that secondary teachers in fiction AREN’T women. Elementary, sure. And usually lower elementary, at that – kindergarten and first grade seem especially snuggly. But if teaching is women’s work, why is half of teaching – the older half – written as men’s work?

I haven’t made any kind of exhaustive study, so I throw out there that it’s entirely possible that there are tons of female secondary teachers and I’ve somehow missed them. Maybe this is a new blog post.

Dabney Grinnan
Dabney Grinnan
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Reply to  CarolineAAR
09/15/2015 10:22 am

I didn’t have any female teachers my last two years in high school. That now strikes me as very very odd. This would indeed make a great blog post.

Blackjack1
Blackjack1
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Reply to  CarolineAAR
09/15/2015 2:07 pm

It might also depend on subject matter. Women are still outnumbered in sciences and mathematics, but are over-represented in the arts and humanities, even in higher education. Things are starting to change in the science and math fields for women, but men are not entering the humanities and arts at equal rates.

I think one reason is that K-12 teaching is still wrapped up in nurturing assumptions, though the more one moves away from viewing the student as child-like, the easier it becomes for a man to take on that job. I cannot think of any romances with high school teachers off the top of my head. but if elementary teachers are represented as female, that certainly makes a great deal of sense given ideological assumptions about women as “”motherly”” figures performing caretaking duties. Gender assumptions inform so many aspects of our lives.

Eliza
Eliza
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Reply to  Dabney Grinnan
09/15/2015 4:21 pm

Hmm… My educational experience was that in high school AP maths were taught by a brilliant woman, and AP lit and history by equally brilliant men. Pretty much the same thing higher up with more men than women in the humanities–at least for the programs I was in. Also interesting is that those humanity profs were more likely to be published and well known in their fields than the women I took classes from.

Eliza
Eliza
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09/15/2015 2:42 am

I think there have always been human beings who have had trouble telling fact from fiction as well the exact reverse, people who have been excellent at differentiating without having to be held by the hand or led by the nose to tell the difference(s)–or the in-between shades of gray. It’s called common sense and life experience.

I also think it has far more to do with overall culture than academia. The US is known around the word for its focus/obsession with Hollywood, fame, etc., even when an individual has to act the fool to get fame. Or far worse, become a murderer for the spotlight. Live in another country for some time to fully see the difference. Something far more reaching than academia currently is in the US culture is needed to turn things around. I think news media, politics, and corporate control better places to start than academia which is getting less accessible to many. And while I’m here, we need to go back to focusing on the US being a democracy instead of thought more of or solely as a capitalistic state with fame, money and control as the goals of the country.

Heather Anastasiu
Heather Anastasiu
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09/14/2015 3:02 pm

Haha, this post is great. Where’s the fun in depicting reality as it really is? What, you mean people aren’t getting shot and having bomb threats in their hospitals as often as happens on Grey’s Anatomy? I’m trying to think, I haven’t read a lot of heinous depictions of writers in fiction lately. Naturally, that’s the one that other writers get right ;) It’s the TV shows and movies that over-glamorize the profession.

Eliza
Eliza
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Reply to  Heather Anastasiu
09/14/2015 3:45 pm

“”Where’s the fun in depicting reality as it really is?””

Exactly. Thank you. That’s why it’s called fiction, “”literature in the form of prose, especially short stories and novels, that describes imaginary events and people”” or more simply, “”invention or fabrication as opposed to fact.”” (Merriam-Webster) Even in nonfiction scholars disagree; again, I really like what Lauren W. so astutely said, “”It’s tempting to assume that our experience of a profession must be the only one, but there’s a wide range of realities in any given field.”” I know that was certainly true of people I worked very closely with in the very same environment, never mind different publishing houses with different goals and so on.

I think the issue at hand is rather more about hot buttons as has been said before, an impetus or inclination to critiquing, or maybe even a love of finding perceived faults to complain about. Since a part of my career was indeed to look for flaws in order to minimize them, I’m delighted to be at a place in my life now where I can look for, and focus and enjoy what novelists get so very right about life experiences. . . and let all the rest go.

Blackjack1
Blackjack1
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Reply to  Heather Anastasiu
09/14/2015 10:35 pm

Heather…””Haha, this post is great. Where’s the fun in depicting reality as it really is? What, you mean people aren’t getting shot and having bomb threats in their hospitals as often as happens on Grey’s Anatomy?””

Yes! For me I feel this is an excellent reason why people need sharp critical thinking skills to help them differentiate fact from fiction. One can enjoy fantastical movies, TV shows, books as long as they are able to critique what they are viewing, question its veracity, examine its biases, etc. In academia where I work, there has been an unfortunate implosion of students coming to college in pursuit of a degree in forensic science and so many students in my intro classes have told me that they want to be a CSI investigator, just like on TV! Many schools now across the country are closing down their criminal justice programs because of trouble with the Dept. of Education because students can’t find jobs and cannot repay student loans. What does this have to do with “”entertainment””? People are not being taught to examine carefully what they find entertaining and have a great deal of difficulty differentiating fact from fiction.

MD
MD
Guest
09/13/2015 6:51 pm

Re: “”specialists””. I think there is often a wish/temptation to read about people like yourself. Even if you know it often goes wrong ;-) And it is possible to get it right, or right enough. For example, Jennifer Crusie “”The Cinderella Deal”” involves a professor. And yes, the whole “”I need a wife or I won’t get hired”” plot is stupid, but it’s stupid in any setting in a contemporary. But beyond that, she doesn’t do anything that is too wrong, at least as far as I can tell – so this remains one of the favorites.

Then again, my other specialism is computer science. If I avoided every book that involves “”computer geniuses””, that would make a lot of contemporary reading harder. Even though a lot of them get things wrong, and some of them I do want to throw out, or moan about to my friends.

Blackjack1
Blackjack1
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Reply to  MD
09/13/2015 9:46 pm

MD…””Re: “specialists”. I think there is often a wish/temptation to read about people like yourself. Even if you know it often goes wrong ;-) And it is possible to get it right, or right enough.””

Yes, very true. For instance, there is a whole subgenre of “”academic novels”” from wonderful authors, including Brit writer David Lodge, that I love reading. It is most definitely possible to get it right.

Dabney Grinnan
Dabney Grinnan
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Reply to  Blackjack1
09/14/2015 8:45 am

And, even as someone who has done academic research, I’ll forgive it if the way the book gets it wrong is pivotal to the plot. I love Possession, for example.

Bona
Bona
Guest
09/13/2015 4:45 am

My job is related to law, in a different country than yours, therefore, the procedures are different but I think the ethical rules are the same. When attorneys or policemen are on the page, I can’t believe that they keep on investigating a crime when the love interest is either the suspect or the victim, or attorneys talking about things they’ve found out through the professional relationship, or when certain proofs are obtained in a way that would not be admitted as evidence in court (the fruit of the poisonous tree and things like that).

Sometimes I can overlook it because -in the end- I say, well, it’s a different country, things might be different, you tend to put certain distance. But sometimes it’s so obvious that it’s wrong, that makes me roll my eyes and gets me out of the story.

As the procedures are different, I just can’t stand when a Spanish novel or movie or TV series portraits policemen, or attorneys or judges as if it were an American movie. It does not make me angry, though. It just makes me laugh.

erika
erika
Guest
09/12/2015 10:04 pm

Having a parent who’s a doctor has made me realize how unrealistic the fictional doctor shows are. They’re fun too watch but not much reality based.
My sister who’s in med school has said she’s glad not to have that much drama as she would not be able to focus on her studies!

Mag
Mag
Guest
09/12/2015 8:52 pm

I’m a teacher and I can’t watch shows or read books where the heroine or hero is a teacher. The amount of time it takes, the exhaustion you feel, and the stress is never shown realistically. And quite frankly, no one wants to hear it. It doesn’t make great romance. If the teacher is totally dedicated to the students (admirable) their family and personal relationships suffer which is not admirable. (I’m talking to Mr. Holland’s Opus.)

AnandaJoy
AnandaJoy
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Reply to  Mag
09/13/2015 11:34 am

THANK YOU!!!!

Seriously, no one is planning a gritty drama or romance about lesson planning, professional development, or grading essays. If anything, maybe it would qualify as a dark comedy, but most of the teacher shows and movies are about either terribly unprofessional teachers who hate their jobs or miracle workers.

I remember throwing a Sandra Brown (I think) paperback across the room that depicted a teacher-student romance as “”true love.”” It was seen as marginally okay because the male high school student was over 18. I hated it. Most ethical teachers aren’t trying to parse their students’ ages to see if it’s “”okay”” to romance them because of the giant moral and legal lines it would cross.

When it comes to suspending disbelief, it’s easier to do it when you’re a layperson to whatever profession is involved. For example, I dislike the attorney-client, nurse-patient romances, but they don’t annoy me as much as a teacher-student romance, even though the issues are similar. The thing is, your job is a major part of your life, and when books get the details wrong, it takes you out of the escapist moment.

Caz
Caz
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Reply to  Mag
09/14/2015 9:07 am

I’m talking to Mr Holland’s Opus

Hah! As a music teacher myself, I yelled at it!

But you’re completely right about the life of a teacher – and the lack thereof. It’s one of the reasons I gave up full-time teaching.

CarolineAAR
CarolineAAR
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Reply to  Caz
09/14/2015 9:32 am

It also seems like females are always elementary teachers, which is of course code for “”excellent mommy material,”” and secondary teachers are nearly always male. What’s up with that?

Dabney Grinnan
Dabney Grinnan
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Reply to  CarolineAAR
09/14/2015 9:49 am

Because the higher the grade, in the US, the greater the probability the teacher is male? Also, if you work with little kids clearly that means you can’t wait to have tots of your own….

CarolineAAR
CarolineAAR
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Reply to  Dabney Grinnan
09/14/2015 9:55 pm

Dabney Grinnan:
Because the higher the grade, in the US, the greater the probability the teacher is male? Also, if you work with little kids clearly that means you can’t wait to have tots of your own….

You’re right that there are more men in secondary than elementary education, but I looked it up and secondary education is still 60% female in the U.S. on average. Definitely not in fiction!

Blackjack1
Blackjack1
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Reply to  Dabney Grinnan
09/14/2015 10:29 pm

Teaching has unfortunately long been considered women’s work, nurturing labor, a labor of love, and worst of all, an act where “”the job should be reward enough.”” Our society devalues all nurturing and caretaking forms of labor and uses that as an excuse to underpay! Where would our society be without teachers?

Eliza
Eliza
Guest
09/12/2015 8:00 pm

My question for ‘””specialists””: If you know you’re more likely than not, not going to enjoy a book on your specialty (academics, medicine, etc.) OR on whatever your hot buttons are, why go there in the first place?

MD
MD
Guest
09/12/2015 7:04 pm

Yet another academic with the same complaints about academics in romance ;-) I remember a book that was reviewed as “”realistic””, and then I read it and the heroine was still working on her PhD while having been a professor and getting ready to get her tenure the moment she defended (you wish!). And there was one, title long forgotten, which was a romance between an undergraduate student and a professor. While these no doubt happen in real life, I have seen the havoc it can wreak on the professor’s career, and it wasn’t pretty!

Blackjack1
Blackjack1
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Reply to  MD
09/12/2015 10:18 pm

Right!! I have encountered profess0r-student relationships in romances and they are immediately discarded. The ethics aside, writers should at least be aware of Title IX laws where it is illegal. How many hours have I spent in mandatory training on this issue. I have a thing anyway about employer-employee relationships, and even in the 19th century where they undoubtedly took place much more free of censure, they are wrong on so many levels. I’m surprised though by the number of readers that find them “”romantic.””

msaggie
msaggie
Guest
09/12/2015 6:41 pm

Blackjack1: I do find many romances representing academia, my own industry, in very exaggerated ways. And while often entertaining to read, it’s more often than not quite disconnected from reality I’ve witnessed and lived. For example, it is pretty much fantasy that young twenty-somethings become department chairs, much less tenured professors (unless they’re Doogie Howser and start grad school as a wee child).A more accurate version would have heroes and heroines much older, but that is still a bit of a taboo in romance writing. The grunt work it takes to move up the ladder in academia does not provide for much glory, unfortunately. Also, as much as I love research and find my own strange pleasure in the process, it is mostly mundane and detail-oriented work that does not always translate well for an exciting story.

I agree with Blackjack on this, being an academic as well as a physician. When I was a kid, I loved reading books with medical protagonists, and watch Marcus Welby MD on TV. During my training in medical school and residency, I found medical programs (e.g. ER or Gray’s Anatomy) sensationalised our lives and patients’ situations too much, and now I never watch these. I have heard lawyers say similar things about LA Law, etc.

Dabney Grinnan
Dabney Grinnan
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Reply to  msaggie
09/12/2015 7:29 pm

My husband says the only show to show medicine as it’s practice is Scrubs.

Mary Skelton
Mary Skelton
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Reply to  Dabney Grinnan
09/12/2015 7:49 pm

My youngest daughter is getting her masters in biological anthropology with a concentration in osteology. She HATES the TV show “”Bones.”” :0)

Blackjack1
Blackjack1
Guest
09/12/2015 5:40 pm

I do completely “”get”” that everyone has a different perception of what is reality. However, there needs to be semblances of reality when representing anything in art. I do find many romances representing academia, my own industry, in very exaggerated ways. And while often entertaining to read, it’s more often than not quite disconnected from reality I’ve witnessed and lived. For example, it is pretty much fantasy that young twenty-somethings become department chairs, much less tenured professors (unless they’re Doogie Howser and start grad school as a wee child). A more accurate version would have heroes and heroines much older, but that is still a bit of a taboo in romance writing. The grunt work it takes to move up the ladder in academia does not provide for much glory, unfortunately.

Also, as much as I love research and find my own strange pleasure in the process, it is mostly mundane and detail-oriented work that does not always translate well for an exciting story. I think A.S. Byatt’s _Possession_ spoiled readers into believing research is heart-pounding excitement that yields incredible finds to shock the world.

Sheri Cobb South
Sheri Cobb South
Guest
09/12/2015 12:34 pm

And then there are books about writers by new/self-published writers who have a very rosy image of what the writing life is like. I read one in which the heroine was a best-selling novelist. The entire plot centered around, “”I told my best (non-writing) friend about my idea, and she stole it, found a publisher for it, and is now making a fortune off my idea!”” As if it were that easy. . .

Ash
Ash
Guest
09/12/2015 10:59 am

It’s not my day job yet (I’m still in the process of getting my degree) but I hate it when characters who exhibit symptoms of major psychiatric disorders are magically healed by the love of a good woman. Some authors handle this well but in some cases the symptoms just automatically fade into the background as the story progresses. If only real life worked that way.

JMM
JMM
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Reply to  Ash
09/16/2015 9:30 pm

Don’t forget the Magic Hymen that cures the paranoid/narcissistic/misogynistic ‘hero’ of the piece.

Eliza
Eliza
Guest
09/12/2015 8:53 am

“”It’s tempting to assume that our experience of a profession must be the only one, but there’s a wide range of realities in any given field.”” AND: “”We all have details that push our buttons.””

This. A reader can suspend disbelief for a piece of fiction, or she can’t; it all depends on the individual reader, and not just for work details but also for general life experiences. It’s just that simple.

Sonya Heaney
Sonya Heaney
Guest
09/12/2015 8:26 am

“”Read a book where a woman has implants? …she’s the bitch of the piece.””

Implants and blonde hair – in Romancelandia that = stupid, bitchy, nasty, evil… I’m so freaking sick of it! It has got so much worse since Stephenie Myer filled her Twilight books with blonde “”jokes””, and then the entire New Adult genre jumped on the bandwagon (go misogyny!).

These days the villainess is always slim, but has implants, because in Romancelandia slim women NEVER have breasts (tell that to the tiny women in my family who considered plastic surgery to REDUCE the size of their breasts!).

Dabney Grinnan
Dabney Grinnan
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Reply to  Sonya Heaney
09/12/2015 8:33 am

Woman who have breast reductions are some of the happiest patients in plastic surgery. I considered it myself when I was younger.

Sonya Heaney
Sonya Heaney
Guest
09/12/2015 8:15 am

Nobody should ever write about ballet unless they have years of experience in ballet! I have laughed out loud at ballet-themed romances! It’s one of those few professions that you give up your whole life for at about kindergarten, and unless you’ve lived it, you’re not going to get it right.

From the diet, to the body type, to the hours, to what it’s like to do pas de deux (partnering), to handling the media, to the daily class, to how long a dancer can stand en pointe (seconds, not ten minutes, like one book I read!)…

If it’s a specialised career, then it’s definitely important to get someone who knows about it to proofread.

Lauren Willig
Lauren Willig
Guest
09/12/2015 1:00 am

We clearly had very different research experiences. While I was writing “”The Secret History of the Pink Carnation””, I was on my own dissertation research year in England, tracking down seventeenth century spies via the British Library, the Public Records Office, and various smaller collections. While I didn’t stumble on an untouched collection of family documents (I wish!), I did find detailed accounts of events, including, at times, whole conversations, in letters and memoirs. Whether one believed those accounts was another story…. But they were there. (Including letters with “”burn this letter”” on the bottom– which someone had clearly forgotten to burn.). It’s tempting to assume that our experience of a profession must be the only one, but there’s a wide range of realities in any given field. (Although I will confess to being deeply annoyed by books purporting to be about Harvard history grad students that bear no relation to the structure of the actual PhD program. We all have details that push our buttons.)

LeeB.
LeeB.
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Reply to  Lauren Willig
09/12/2015 12:34 pm

Burn this letter and it wasn’t burned. Very funny! I always look forward to reading your historical notes at the end because they are just so fascinating. It is amazing that you include a lot of true stories in your books.

CarolineAAR
CarolineAAR
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Reply to  Lauren Willig
09/12/2015 12:55 pm

Thanks for commenting! I will say that the 18th century isn’t typically my area, although I was working in it at the time (in Scotland rather than London). The only people I’ve come across with such detailed writings were gentry diarists like Pepys who had hours a day for writing and politicians who were clearly writing for posterity. At the time, I recall feeling like the protagonists fit into neither category, and it gave me shades of Pamela – the authors writing in awkward times and places. However, it seems they existed in a well-documenting group I’m not familiar with.

Are any real-life documents analogous to the fictional ones in your stories available in any digital archives or online museums? I’d like to see them and then maybe give your books another try.

Eliza
Eliza
Guest
Reply to  Lauren Willig
09/12/2015 7:42 pm

To Lauren,
I forgot to tell you I am a big fan of your books and have been since the first one. I remember knowing that you had done research in England which was in itself appealing but Eloise’s on-going research and hints about what Colin was up to throughout the series were a good part of what drew me in–along with the historical stories themselves of course.

In other words, I happen to love research, particularly historical research, when it’s related to a personal passion and not only a requirement for something or someone else. Yes, there often can be more dead ends than not, but, oh, the times I uncover something unknown I have been looking for is almost indescribable. But then, I also enjoy the journey of the hunt, as well for the unknown, unlooked-for, unexpected finds I’ve happened upon. I guess this is one of those areas of personal taste again–perhaps not that unlike the recently announced Homo naledi fossil finds in South Africa? One never knows what part of the past may be revealed at any time and sometimes in surprising ways.

Anyway, thank you ever so much for the Pink Carnation series.