the ask@AAR: What’s the greatest kiss of all time?
Since the invention of the kiss, there have been five kisses rated the most passionate, the most pure. This one left them all behind. (from The Princess Bride)
Ok, sure, Wesley and Buttercup’s kiss is epic but is it the G.O.A.T.? (Greatest of all time.)
That’s a tough one, isn’t it? There are SO MANY great kisses, in movies, in books, and on TV. It’s impossible–but fun–to try and pick just one.
For me, the best TV kiss of all time might just be Veronica and Logan’s first kiss in Season One of Veronica Mars, one of my top ten favorite TV shows. Everything about it, from the way the relationship has built up over the past 17 episodes to the music to the shock viewers felt when it happened makes it just perfect. (That shock factor also makes Buffy and Spike’s first kiss riveting as well.) And, yes, that kiss from North and South is gorgeous but it’s not quite G.O.A.T. material for me.)
My favorite movie kiss might be that iconic scene from The Notebook. They’re just so all in and it’s what the viewer wants more than anything and their chemistry is off the charts and just give me a frickin’fan already.
My G.O.A.T. book kiss scene is not even an actual kiss but a discussion about the perfect kiss. In Julie Anne Long’s What I Did for A Duke, Alexander tells Genevieve what a kiss should be like. It knocks me off my feet every time I read it.
He casually, deliberately removed his coat, folded it neatly, laid it next to him. The wind took the opportunity to play in his hair, lifting it a bit, tossing it about, letting it drop, satisfied at having mussed a duke. He leaned back on his hands. And then idly turned to her. He inhaled, and exhaled an almost long-suffering sigh. And he began in a patient, almost leisurely fashion, in a voice fashioned from dark velvet, a voice that stroked over her senses until they were lulled, to lecture directly to her as if she was a girl in the schoolroom. “A proper kiss, Miss Eversea, should turn you inside out. It should . . . touch places in you that you didn’t know existed, set them ablaze, until your entire being is hungry and wild. It should . . . hold a moment, I want to explain this as clearly as possible . . .” He tipped his head back and paused to consider, as though he were envisioning this and wanted to relate every detail correctly. “It should slice right down through you like a cutlass with a pleasure so devastating it’s very nearly pain.” He waited, watching her face, allowing her to accommodate the potent words. Her mouth was parted. Her breathing short. She couldn’t look away. His eyes and voice held her as fast as if he’d cradled her face with his hands. And as he said them, an echo of sensation sounded in her, like a remembered dream, an instinct awakened. She thought about Mars getting ready to give Venus a good pleasuring. Stop, she should say. “And . . . ?” she whispered. “It should make you do battle for control of your senses and your will. It should make you want to do things you’d never dreamed you’d want to do, and in that moment all of those things will make perfect sense. And it should herald, or at least promise, the most intense physical pleasure you’ve ever known, regardless of whether that promise is ever, ever fulfilled. It should, in fact . . .” he paused for effect “. . . haunt you for the rest of your life.
Whoa.
How about you? What’s your G.O.A.T. kiss?
Late to the party, but has anyone here seen the Italian movie Cinema Paradiso? The original version, not the horrible director’s cut? I’’m trying to avoid spoilers, so I’ll just say that the last few minutes of that movie beat any movie kiss.. I was so moved—I smiled , I laughed, I cried an ocean of tears, And the earlier kiss in the middle of the movie, in the rain, wasn’t shabby either. If you haven’t seen the movie, give it a shot. Just avoid the director’s cut no matter what.
That is a lovely scene. Now you’ve made me want to watch the film again. I remember feeling so joyful when I left the cinema!
The movie Torn Curtain, directed by Hitchcock, has My favorite screen kiss ever I think. Julia Andrews and Paul Newman come to see they are on the same side politically, which is really important to the plot. He pulls her into a more private setting and plants one on her. Gives me tummy flutters every time. The only other guy who has ever done that to me is Hubs.
Love Rhett and Scarlett’s ‘burning of Atlanta’ kiss too, but Paul and Julie are better.
Let’s not forget this uncharacteristically lovely scene from The Godfather (kissing starts around 6:26 mark): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV4-qKUAgtY. Warning for exposed breasts.
Setting aside the monster that Michael becomes later, I love the gentleness and tenderness expressed by both of the leads here.
Yes, we have often speculated if Michael’s path would have changed at all if Appolonia had lived. Or was that just his destiny? Would he have been more like his father, who wasn’t a saint by any means, but always put family first, or was he destined to turn on everyone in a way and end up alone?
I think he was always destined to end up evil.
I think we get a lot of “what if’s” with Michael. He defied his father and family to join the war and became a war hero even with his father and Sonny telling him it was about “other people” and all he should care about was his family. When his father is shot-everything changes because it becomes about his family surviving and he can’t rebel anymore. He can’t rely on Sonny to take care of things, so he sacrifices the life he has built away from them to ensure his father’s safety and the family’s. When he is in Sicily he grows more like his father and closer to his family’s history, When Appollonia is killed another part of him dies. When his father passes he crosses that final line and kills his brother in law.
I think that is what makes Michael so interesting. He didn’t want that life even though intellectually he was the most suited for it. He had already distanced himself- in the movie when the father is shot it’s Christmas and he’s with Kay in a hotel room with her pretending to be the long distance operator. It’s a story about how a hero turns into a monster and the start of it all is love for his family.
All interesting questions, Chrisreader. Having read the book before I saw the movie, it gets even more complicated. As for the Godfather Part II, I think it’s interesting that Mario Puzo did not approve of Francis Coppola making Fredo a traitor as a plot point (I don’t think this is exactly spoiler territory at this point in history…). According to the DVD commentary I heard by Mr. Coppola, Mr. Puzo earnestly insisted that he never wrote Fredo that way. And he was really appalled at the idea of Michael murdering his own brother. But Mr. Coppola insisted the film had to be about *something,* so Mr. Puzo relented on only one condition- Michael couldn’t touch Fredo until their mother was dead because that would just be too cruel to have her live through the death of another son. Just another fun fact of the day.
Yes, I read the book too although after I had seen the movie and it’s interesting how Coppola departed from Puzo even then. The last scene in the book is about how Kay has become a good Catholic wife after Michael shuts the door to his den (and business) in her face so she goes off to pray for him. Quite a departure from movie Kay. I know Coppola felt people sympathized too much with Michael so in the second movie he set out to make him an absolute monster. I think Puzo liked his character more than Coppola and probably had different ideas about how he would go.
I thought Coppola’s ending scene in Godfather I was an interesting departure as well. He and Puzo made a good team though. A lot of people say the movie is better than the book, and I can certainly see why. The book had a lot of subplots that had a tendency to drag, which is understandable given that Puzo needed money quickly and had to produce a pot boiler he never wanted to write in the first place. Still, I enjoyed some parts of the movie better than the book and vice versa. For example, I think the movie has better pacing overall, great visuals, and juxtapositions that work better on screen than in text. As for what worked better in the book for me, I actually enjoyed the fleshed out side characters like Jules Segal and Lucy Mancini.
As for Puzo liking his character more than Coppola, I think that’s an ailment all of us writers suffer from. Our characters are both our babies and our sweethearts. There’s a reason why there’s a saying in Hollywood (according to Mel Brooks), “Step one, shoot the writer. He’ll just get in the way.”
Yes Coppola brought a lot to the movie, the scene where Michael acts as godfather and “rejects” satan while having his enemies bumped off is brilliant.
I loved that they brought the actress who played Lucy Mancini back for Godfather III. I don’t know if she ever even got a name in the first one but it made nice continuity for book readers to have her be Vincent’s mom and Sonny’s child. I thought how they handled it was very true in the movie, they would never throw a kid away they knew was Sonny’s but he sure didn’t grow up the same as the legitimate kids.
I think the best movie adaptations know what to prune and what to leave in and The Godfather is one that certainly succeeds brilliantly. I am a big Coppola fan.
“Yes Coppola brought a lot to the movie, the scene where Michael acts as godfather and “rejects” satan while having his enemies bumped off is brilliant.” Absolutely! Try showing that in a book…
“I think the best movie adaptations know what to prune and what to leave in and The Godfather is one that certainly succeeds brilliantly.” Definitely. According to the Godfather DVD commentary I heard, Coppola was a bit disheartened when he was handed the book to adapt because he thought there was way too much emphasis on Johnny Fontaine’s subplot and Lucy Mancini’s pelvic floor surgery to make for entertaining cinema.
Plus, he had to deal with annoying producers who insisted on casting either Robert Redford or Ryan O’Neal as Michael Corleone. Can you imagine? It gets better (or worse). The studio didn’t want Al Pacino because, not only was he an unknown, but they said he was too short, dark, and ethnic looking. Thank God, Coppola put up a stink about that! He basically said, “Uh… You’re telling me that a 100% ethnic Sicilian whose people actually come from Corleone is too short, dark, and ethnic looking to play a character who’s 100% ethnic Sicilian and whose people come from Corleone? You’re going to have to explain that.” Ugh, Hollywood…
I’ve second the kiss from North and South and the one in Last of the Mohicans. Part of what makes that one great though, is the way the music builds in the background.
I really like the “kiss” that happens in the first Lady Julia Grey book by Deanna Raybourn (Silent in the Grave). It didn’t happen on page, but was still pretty swoony.
And then I really like the first kiss in Fan Girl by Rainbow Rowell.
I can’t believe no one’s mentioned the kiss on the beach in From Here to Eternity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iTCDWQXYlY
I always worry all that sand would be itchy…. ;)
You know the funny thing I heard about that kiss (if it’s true), is that they had a hard time convincing the censors that it was okay to show a couple making out on the beach. Oddly enough, that’s probably the most famous part of the movie!
On that note, I often wonder what kinds of interesting characters and stories could have been explored in American cinema if the Hays Code never went into effect.
One of my friends is an expert on just that. She runs a film series that shows pre-code movies. If you want to read more about that, here’s her link.
https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=moviediva%20film%20series%20precode&epa=SEARCH_BOX
Thanks for the link, but it’s broken. Is this the correct one? https://www.facebook.com/The-Film-Diva-574675942577067/
No. Here’s her FB page. Search for pre-code.
https://www.facebook.com/moviediva/
Thanks! I don’t know if I can do a search though because I’m not a member of Facebook.
Well it is the North and South kiss for me, I have to rewind and watch it again every time. I clearly haven’t watched as many films as all of you though, because I don’t know most of the ones you mention.
I love the movies, especially love stories and have watched them my whole life.
Last night, Dr. Feelgood and I watched The Notebook which I always think should end either five minutes (when he shows you who wrote the notebook) or 30 seconds (when they fall asleep) than it does. That ending irks me every time.
I agree about the Julie Anne Long’s What I Did for A Duke. I am not very good at this……how about The Thorn Birds ?
https://youtu.be/sNa7BVfrCTg
I really loved the kiss between Sidney and Charlotte in Sanditon. Lots of lovely buildup to it.
My teenage heart beat so hard for the kiss in Some Kind of Wonderful where Watts is teaching her friend how to kiss while she’s in love with him.
The end kiss in You’ve Got Mail when she says “I hoped it was you.”
Speaking of Cary Grant, am I the only one who finds that unseen shipboard kiss just the swooniest thing ever?
https://youtu.be/ZuZXKzLTPxE
Okay, the link below is my entry for hot kissage in the Male/Male category. It’s from the Belgian version of SKAM. In the story, Robbe has given Sander an ultimatum: “Either we’re exclusive or we’re finished. It’s up to you.” In this clip, Sander stops by Robbe’s flat to give Robbe his answer.
Warning: There is also some hot foreplay (though no pants are removed as far as I know). Don’t click if you don’t care for M/M romance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOgphlKU5v4
Here’s my m/m entry for best kiss. I’ve never seen the whole movie, but I saw this clip of the 1971 film “Sunday Bloody Sunday” when I watched the documentary “The Celluloid Closet.” Something about the sweet tenderness of this kiss spoke to me and I never forgot it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAiOBFhs8As.
For some background, Peter Finch plays a gay doctor who is in an open relationship/love triangle with a young bisexual sculptor. Mr. Finch, who was straight in real life, joked that he had to follow his wife’s advice to close his eyes and think of England during the scene! But it never comes across as forced.
Oh, that is lovely. Very natural.
I’m glad you liked it. I watched your clip as well. I thought it was quite passionate while still being tasteful.
Murray Head! Now I’m going to be humming “One Night In Bangkok” all night long. He’s also Giles (Anthony Head’s) brother -because everything comes back to Buffy.
That was a very sweet, genuine kiss. I was thinking about that watching these films. Particularly ones from the 70’s and 80’s like this one, Empire Strikes Back, Rocky etc and how the kisses seem real. Everything now in films seems so over the top and unrealistic.
I never saw this film and thanks to U2 I was convinced it had something to do with Ireland and the fight for independence. Peter Finch is an actor you don’t hear a great deal about nowadays same with Glenda Jackson but they were a big deal back in the day.
Thanks for sharing that.
You are welcome! I am looking forward to watching the movie too.
I agree about movies from the 1970s and 1980s having more realism, and not just in kissing scenes. The other day, I was semi-joking with someone that if I had to pitch a movie channel to an over-the-air network, it would be a channel that only played movies from the 1970s. I love movies regardless of the decade, but there’s something extra special about a good number of 1970s films. I believe it’s because the Hays Code was abolished in 1968, opening the door for more creative storytelling and finally providing the freedom to explore fringe characters and topics. It really was a golden age of film. Then films moved toward less realistic storytelling and more special effects toward the 1980s (think high octane thrillers with mega explosions) and never quite recovered. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not snubbing special effects and thrillers. But I get annoyed when special effects act as a *substitute* for a good story rather than *enhancing* a good story.
Plus, a lot of films in the 70s had a knack for weaving in unusual social issues, characters, and situations without beating the viewer over the head with an overt message or moral- even if the message was there. When I look at recent films, I can practically see the executives sitting around saying, “Well, X, Y, and Z are popular, so let’s stick that in” or “There isn’t enough ABC. Let’s make sure we slip that in for our teen demographic.” Whereas the storytelling in 1970s cinema was often just that- telling a story. Whenever I watch a 70s film, I get a real sense of writers in that era telling the stories they wanted to tell rather than caving to special interest groups. Some of those films couldn’t even get made the same way today because of concerns regarding political correctness and whatnot. There was a kind of rebellious freedom there that few, save perhaps Quentin Tarantino, have ever really recaptured.
Were there duds in the 70s? Oh, yeah. But if I had to pick just one decade to pitch to a TV station, that would be it.
I’ve also always enjoyed Marion kissing Indy’s wounds in Raiders of the Lost Ark.
OK, I’m bored. Here are some more great kisses, etc….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQeYsl_9-C0&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=5cv93aIkGKE&feature=emb_logo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJFQRI7pvXc&feature=emb_logo
Oh, in movies, the one in Hitchcock’s Notorious between Cary Grant and Ingrid Bergman. He’s on the phone, and kissing her, and it’s delicious!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8xRZeIZAx8
I think you’ve started a new sub-category. What’s the best Cary Grant onscreen kiss?
Of the old films I would add Gregory Peck in a delicious bad boy role kissing Jennifer Jones in Duel in the Sun.
I think one of the reasons why it’s so delicious is because Alfred Hitchcock got highly creative with Hays Code restrictions. There was a rule prohibiting a kiss from lasting longer than three seconds- so he broke up what might have been a single elongated kiss with bits of dialogue. It’s amazing how restrictions can actually force storytellers into a better direction. I’m certainly not advocating for censorship, but I’m always impressed by how people found clever ways to get around it.
Yes, I was an adult before I understood all the underlying streams in Hitchcock’s movies. Watching them as a kid and again as an adult makes you go “oh my god, that went right over my head before!” Rear Window is a great example of what he slips in there.
You’ve made me remember another favorite one from Rear Window.
https://youtu.be/gl0yPuI7EVs
Lisa. Carol. Fremont.
She always looks astoundingly glamourous. It’s a bit overwhelming in a good way.
She was possibly one of the most beautiful women ever. In that cool, absolutely perfect kind of way. As opposed to Ava Gardner who was stunning but always seemed to smolder. Grace Kelly was always that cool princess.
Dr. Feelgood just reminded me of this kiss. The chemistry between these leads is astonishing.
https://youtu.be/dyXlsD7Gx0Y
Rocky: Rocky and Adrian’s first kiss
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59FmUOxADwQ
Today I think it would be considered “crossing a line”, but my romantic self still think it holds up pretty well.
It’s a hot scene but I think you’re right that it doesn’t hold up well in today’s culture that centers consent first and foremost.
Agreed. Adrian is happy with how it all turns out. It doesn’t bother me because she never has any regrets.
It’s pretty gentle. I know he technically stops her from leaving but I never got the sense she couldn’t go if she really wanted to. It’s actually a very sweet kiss, he’s yelled to the whole neighborhood she’s there with him and it’s very clear by the end she really likes him too. It seems like she’s not only shy, she’s afraid she is going to be made fun of or that it’s all a joke.
I’d forgotten how sweet this movie was in parts and how attractive Stallone was before he got addicted to plastic surgery.
The first Rocky movie is really a great one. I love this review:
https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/rocky-1976
Great review. I loved Siskel and Ebert, I used to watch their show religiously in every incarnation, I like to think it helped shape my movie tastes growing up and exposed me to movies I never would have been aware of.
I haven’t seen the movie. I guess that will be another entry for my TBW list.
@Chrisreader- Thanks for putting into words what I had trouble expressing about that scene. Like you, I really got a sense that Adrian is shy but wants Rocky. And he’s very sweet and gentle with her.
By the way, if you think Mr. Stallone’s plastic surgeries were a disaster, you should see the awful before and after pictures of his mother. Mrs. Stallone was a handsome woman! I think it’s sad when celebrities go to the extreme to look a certain way when most of them probably looked fine before.
@Dabney Grinnan: Thanks for the review link!
Jackie Stallone right? I agree what a shame. It’s like Michael Jackson, I just don’t get it, he was so darn cute before! He was a huge pop idol, why did he think he needed those surgeries? So sad. Lindsay Lohan is another young and stunning person who made herself look worse.
On the other hand you have people like Raquel Welch who must have made a diabolical pact or have the best plastic surgeon ever.
Yes, Jackie Stallone- who is still alive at 98, by the way. And Michael Jackson was definitely another person who got addicted to plastic surgery.
One person who made it work was Martha Raddatz. The work she had done on her neck was a tremendous improvement.
You do know I’m married to a plastic surgeon, don’t you? ;)
There is almost not a single person we see on screen who hasn’t had something done. The vast majority of it is good work. The bad ones–Lohan, mid career Meg Ryan, the over Botoxed version of Nicole Kidman–are the ones we notice.
Check out this link for all the stars who share their plastic surgery stories. They are, I promise you, the tip of the iceberg.
https://www.harpersbazaar.com/beauty/health/g14478114/celebrities-with-plastic-surgery/
“You do know I’m married to a plastic surgeon, don’t you?” I do now! Believe me, no offense was meant. :)
Oh no worries. I personally am extremely down on bad plastic surgery. And much of the work that plastic surgeons do is reconstructive and is something that patients are wildly grateful for. I met him while he was a resident and I am exceedingly proud of the work he has done over the past 35 years. I do often find myself shaking my head at the idea that all plastic surgeons do is make bored housewives look better. And it is occasionally hilarious to see all the assumptions people make about me simply because I am married to him. (I have actually had people ask me if these really are my breasts. Which, they are.)
It’s true though that we live in an incredibly ageist society. And women in particular are judged harshly for looking older, especially at work. I have a lot of empathy for most of my husband’s patients.
Oh, yes. I agree with everything you said. Plastic surgeons are incredibly important for the reasons you mentioned.
It is indeed sad that women, celebrities or otherwise, are judged so harshly for aging naturally.
There a few reasons why this scene never worked for me. First, Rocky physically intervenes to try to prevent Adrian from leaving, which she indicates is what she wants. I would never physically plant myself in someone’s way and block them from walking away from me, and so that alone feels weird. But, I’m a woman and women tend not to take up physical space the way men do. More importantly though, I don’t like the virgin/sexually experienced male dynamic, though I know that it has been a traditionally popular trope in romances. In this scene, “no means yes,” and Adrian’s no and decision to walk away s rejected by Rocky, who instead shows her what she really wants because he knows best. We’re meant to assume that Adrian’s attempt to walk away is not what she wants and that she needs the man to show her instead. To me it’s a mainstay of romance tropes from the 70s and 80s and reminds me of how far we have come. This scene wouldn’t appear in any of the romances I read or watch today, but may still be out there in stories I don’t follow. In terms of degrees, it’s not the worst thing out there at all, but it does assert a dynamic I find problematic and it reminds me again of how grateful I am that different stories and different cultural customs prevail today.
Love that trope. It lets the guys do all the work at first. Tons of women fantasize about it because it’s great to be taken care of.
There’s always a price to pay for getting “taken care of” as women typically discover. Paternalism has its consequences. I’ll go for taking care of myself and being in an equal relationship.
Always Han and Leia, and HAVE YOU SEEN THE EXTENDED VERSION: https://youtu.be/MtYo1mhXqjM
I also love Bridget and Mark Darcy’s “Nice boys don’t kiss like that”
kiss from the end of Bridget Jones’s Diary.
OMG!!!! I hadn’t seen that and now I want EVERYONE too! “heads off to share on Facebook”
Where has this been all my life!? Why did young Chrisreader not get to see this on the big screen way back in 1980?
Having read Carrie Fisher’s book The Princess Diarist somehow it makes it even more poignant for me knowing Carrie was likely still carrying a torch for Harrison and playing romantic scenes opposite him.
I love all your choices above with the exception of The Notebook. (Yup I’m that one spoilsport that just doesn’t love that movie and finds them both dramatic and extra).
One of my all time favorite first kisses was in Last Of The Mohicans when Daniel Day Lewis just walks up to Madeleine Stowe takes her hand and off they go. When they finally kiss it’s electric.
I adore the first kiss in Amelie where they kiss each other on the cheek, the eye, side of the mouth before they kiss on the lips. It’s just so romantic and sweet.
Room with a View’s second kiss is actually my favorite where George surprises her on the stairs after tennis. Unlike the first kiss where she is just surprised, Lucy Honeychurch is *into it* and kisses him back passionately. Then of course she she starts pretending again and evicts him from her house. The ending kisses are fantastic as well.
Some of my other favorites are:
the proposal kiss from Emma (1996 version) with Gwyneth Paltrow and Jeremy Northam.
The final kiss at the end of Never Been Kissed with Drew Barrymore and Michael Vartan
When Aragorn sees Arwen is still alive in Return of the King and just grabs her and kisses her.
In the series Firefly when Inara thinks YoSaffBridge has killed Mal and runs and kisses his unconscious self. (Only to find out he was knocked out by tranquilizer lipstick that she then gets whammied with).
OK. I just have to share this story with you!
Dabney Talks to Daniel Day Lewis and It Goes Very Poorly
Ha ha I love it! And I feel very honored to get a video response! Now I can imagine you speaking when I read your posts.
Well let’s just say I knew all the way back in the 80’s when A Room With A View came out that Daniel Day Lewis was known as……is difficult the right word? And he has some demons as I remember he dropped out of a stage version of Hamlet he was starring in mid performance one night as the role was triggering his long standing issues and problems with his own father (Poet Laureate Cecil Day Lewis). I think he may have upped and left the country.
Isabelle Adjani said he was a cheater, wouldn’t help support their son, didn’t come to his birth and had a different girlfriend at the time he eloped with Arthur Miller’s daughter. He’s never struck me as a particularly “nice” person despite his obvious talent. (and confession- I actually liked Uncas better in the movie but DDL and MS got all the juicy love scenes).
Sorry you had a weird experience- but you got a funny story out of it! Which may be ever better. Thanks for the giggle, I need as many as I can get these days.
I so wish I had that card.
Somebody else who remembers A Room with a View. I totally second that, Although I love the kiss in the poppy field too. Well I just love this film,.
Such an amazing film! It still makes me laugh when I rewatch it. I DO NOT recommend the wretched TV remake from several years back. They thought it was a good idea to change the ending!
Ross and Delmelza’s first kiss is tops.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpqjKy9apjQ
When Buffy and Spike destroyed a house.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1h4Mghhrdk
Oh my goodness… Had not seen that Spuffy clip since Season 6 aired… Thank you for posting the link!
Even though I know loving Spuffy is WRONG (channels Faith), I can’t help myself.
Loving Spuffy is right! I will argue that he is a far better man than Angel ever was or could be until the cows come home. I am 100% a Spuffy shipper!
If loving Spuffy is wrong, I don’t want to be right.
I’ve always argued that Buffy’s best partner is Riley, her most romantic partner is Angel, and her hottest partner is Spike. We should all be so lucky.
I had thought that the Buffy/Spike pairing offered the best chemistry of the couples paired with her. Their first kiss was amazing. The bringing down the house scene confirmed to me though what I already knew and didn’t want to admit at the time, which was the destructiveness at the heart of their relationship. After that key episode, I actually forced myself to let go of any Buffy/Spike hopes. In the end, that turned out to be right.
Joss Whedon didn’t believe any of his characters could have love which has always made me sad.
I used to worship Whedon and while I still enjoy a lot of his work, especially the older stuff, I have grown to have some real problems with his depictions of women, both on the page and his obsession with stick thin girl/women on his shows and in his writing. Let alone how some of them were treated in real life.
There is nothing that will make me not love Buffy. I think it is his best work and, despite the skinny girls (except for gorgeous Amber Benson), I think it’s a deeply feminist show.
I think this is true and I’m curious to see what his upcoming new show on HBO will be like. Whedon was a proud graduate of Wesleyan and loved to talk about his feminist studies there, which is great, but the reality of his life and work falls short at times.
I would argue that Spike was the best person of all of them. His feelings evolved without a soul. Even when he was with Dru, he was very caring and human. I remember one villain saying “he stunk of humanity” because of that relationship. Spike cared enough (without a soul to guide him) to undergo trials and torture to get his soul back. He made the ultimate sacrifice for Buffy even believing she didn’t really love him.
Angel was beautiful but he was a crummy person in life before he was turned and whenever his soul was taken he would have learned nothing and went right back to misery and torture. He retained no feelings or tenderness for Buffy or her friends. Without his soul he never even had friends, unlike Spike.He was like the high school boyfriend Buffy never got over.
Riley had his own demons but he was never Buffy’s equal in many ways. Maybe it’s just my bias but Spike was the only one of the three who ever seemed emotionally in tune with Buffy and was as smart and sarcastic as she was.
Spike was the most vulnerable of the three. When he loved, his love made him overcome his demons, literally.
It was the chip, I tell you! The chip!
(Seriously, though, I had it all worked out. The chip rendered Spike incapable of harming any non-demons without incurring horrible pain. I also believe the chip had another side effect: making Spike susceptible to falling in love with a non-demon, if the right circumstances presented themselves. And they did. Chipped and harmless, Spike ended up spending a lot of time with Buffy, enough to get to really know her and fall in love with her bad-ass, take-no-prisoners self. And Spike was always a romantic anyway. The chip simply allowed the object of his affections to be Buffy. That’s my theory, and I’m sticking with it.)
Yeah, I spent wa-a-y-y too much time fantasizing about them, back in the day.
You are in good company!