the ask@AAR: What’s the best/most interesting thing you’ve ever learned from a romance novel?
Yesterday, in the States, many of us joined friends and family for Thanksgiving. I host my large family every year and am usually too frenetic to be thankful for much until the meal is done, the dishes are washed, and my mom is making turkey stew which we freeze and then eat all year. But then, when the day is almost at its end, I do try and think about all that I am thankful for.
Somewhere on that list is always romance novels. Over the years, this genre has, in so many ways, improved my life, my marriage, my sex life, and my sense of joy. I am beyond thankful.
Romance novels have also made me wiser and better educated. From them I’ve learned about wuxia martial-arts and 5th century Chinese history, the Hanover/Stuart conflict, and the complexity of British shipping records. I’ve significantly upgraded my knowledge of hockey, football, and skiing. I could, of course, go on and on.
What about you? What are the best things you’ve learned from reading romance? The more specific, the better!
Rather than a single specific item, it isn’t unreasonable for me to say that reading romances led to a fundamental shift in attitude. Before I read any genre romances, I was almost completely disinterested in history. I primarily read F&SF and my focus was toward the future. When I first read Regency-set novels by Heyer and others, I barely knew when the period was and remembered almost nothing about it from school. I did a lot of reading to understand the period, and other periods I encountered in my romance reading. After I discovered The Teaching Company (now The Great Courses) several years later, history courses were a substantial subset of what I bought. I’ve listened to at least 60 history courses from them.
When I first read Jane Austen, I didn’t understand many of the social conventions, and even words have changed meanings over time. I had never read a Regency prior to that, so I was a little confused from time to time. I went and got Austen for Dummies, which was an immense help.
I went to a wonderful public school system, but we don’t teach British history much in U.S. schools. We certainly don’t teach about rules of precedence, or anything about the peerage, or how women on both sides of the Atlantic were basically the property of their closest male relative. That simple guide really helped me understand much more about that society, and that time and place.
“women on both sides of the Atlantic were basically the property of their closest male relative.” Well, yes and no. Free women in Colonial America actually had more property rights than their sisters on the other side of the Atlantic, particularly if they were single or widowed. There are a couple of sections and articles on the Colonial Williamsburg website about women in trades, the link to one of which is here: https://www.history.org/foundation/journal/spring04/women.cfm.
I also remember reading that single women in Colonial America were legally referred to as “feme soles,” and their status as such allowed them to conduct business and hold property in their own name. But there was definitely a stigma against single women that was probably especially prominent in the upper classes. And also, then as now, a lot of women wanted to be married despite the sacrifices marriage would entail.
History sure is fascinating, complicated stuff.
Have you read the Hannah Trevor Trilogy? I learned so much about pre-Revolutionary War America in those books. It certainly seems that in the 1700s, women were still required to be attached to a man.
No, I haven’t read “Hannah Trevor.” Thanks for the rec!
Yes, women throughout history have often needed to attach themselves to men in some way or another. In many places, that is still true. But I would argue it worked the other way too. I remember reading about how in Pilgrim times, a man couldn’t stay a bachelor for long and expect to survive unless he was being supported in some fashion (e.g. a clergyman relying upon donations). Since farming and other manual tasks lasted from sunup to sundown, he needed a woman at home to cook and stoke the fire so he wouldn’t starve or freeze. And a woman needed a man to do the hard physical labor she typically wouldn’t have been capable of performing without the aid of modern technology. So men and women often needed each other (although I *do* realize men often had more options.) Plus, they needed to have lots of children to till the fields and care for them if they were lucky enough to live to old age. It’s a lot more fun reading about history than living in it!
But I like to think that despite the circumstances, there were many couples who loved and cared about each other. Part of the fun of well-written HR is going in with the mindset of, “Okay. A woman simply *had* to get married in this time period and place. So let’s see how the author makes a healthy romance possible under these high-pressure conditions.”
I’d like to make a non-romance recommendation here: Richard Wrangham’s CATCHING FIRE. Wrangham’s theory is that as soon as humans learned how to control fire, gender roles and gendered division of labor started. It’s an extremely interesting and provocative book; I’m not sure I agree with all of his assertions, but it does help explain that those gender-based roles go way, way back.
https://www.amazon.com/Catching-Fire-Cooking-Made-Human/dp/0465020410/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?keywords=Charles+wrangham+catching+fire&qid=1575243303&sr=8-1-fkmr0
Another non-romance recommendation: Good Wives by Laurel Thatcher Ulrich, a Pulitzer-prize winning PhD historian at Harvard. This is an analysis of gender roles in colonial America.
https://www.amazon.com/Good-Wives-Reality-Northern-1650-1750/dp/0679732578
Elizabeth Kingston’s Welsh Blades series has sent me down rabbit holes to learn more about that time period and the history of Wales under Edward 1.
Wale’s unique history is overshadowed and hidden by Great Britain’s empire building, and I think Kingston really hit on a rich trove of stories to tell in her series. She does considerable research for them and it really shows in the books she puts out.
Oh the joy of a good book that makes you research about a subject (disclamer: I’m a perpetual student/researcher at heart)!
I would say that the author and books that lately made me research like a maniac while reading a romance was Rachel Grant and her Flashpoint series:
Tinderbox: I already know plenty of archaeology and human evolution, but I loved researching about how US military bases work, the chain of command and, mostly, about Djibouti’s political background.
Catalyst: This one mixed politics (Sudan, slavery) and jungle survival. Loved it.
Firestorm: With Congo in the background, descriptions of Central Africa, its politics and, in particular, the wonderful descriptions of Gbadolite, Mobutu’s ruined jungle paradise. It took me twice the time to read since I was happily going around with maps, pictures, history search, etc. It is probably my favourite romantic thriller in the last 5 years.
Rachel Grant’s books are on my 2020 tbr list and so I was happy to read this post!
I’m glad. :)
Interestingly I did’t enjoy nearly as much her other series—the one that really focus on archaeologists. (Maybe because I’m one myself.) But, yes, give me a good romance with political intrigue, great biogeographical background, and interesting places/institutions/history to research on and I’m in paradise. Grant’s Flashpoint series is spot on! (I might reread them again soon.)
Thanks! She has so many books I’ve been debating where to begin!
My secret addiction is historical romance, especially when set in the Regency period. As I have said here a number of times, I first encountered Georgette Heyer as a University of California freshman which has led to a life-long interest in that period of British, American and European history. GH’s wonderful story, An Infamous Army, started my interest in the Napoleonic wars and particularly the Peninsular Campaign under the Duke of Wellington. Indeed, so brilliant was her description of Waterloo, that An Infamous Army was once used as a text at Sandhurst, the UK equivalent of West Point. I’ve been on many Peninsular War battlefield tours across Spain, Portugal, France and Belgium as, after reading the Richard Sharpe books, my husband joined my obsession so it’s been a wonderful shared interest for a long time.
My particular academic interest in history (I have an MA in modern and early modern European history with a specialism in British history) is social history which emphasises how people live their lives – not just politics, economics, wars, etc. Georgette Heyer herself was an immaculate, dedicated, highly dedicated researcher and so much that I ever learnt about Regency society and life both on a national and domestic basis came from her. She inspired my much wider reading that continues to this day and my obsession with National Trust properties, relevant museums (such as in Bath) and the V&A, etc. Right now I am waiting for 2 newly published books to drop a bit in price: Gentlemen of Uncertain Fortune: How Younger Sons Made Their Way in Jane Austen’s England by Rory Muir and The Regency Revolution: Jane Austen, Napoleon, Lord Byron and the Making of the Modern World by Robert Morrison.
However, the one really striking and totally new thing I learnt reading historical romance was from an episode in The Fiery Cross by Diana Gabaldon. I know some argue that the Outlander books are not strictly HR but for me they are. Despite spending many years taking courses on US history, I never, ever heard about The War of the Regulation, also known as Regulator Movement, an uprising in the British North America’s Carolina colonies, lasting from about 1765 to 1771, in which citizens took up arms against colonial officials, whom they viewed as corrupt. Amazing and it was 100% new to me and I don’t recall ever learning about it!!
There are many HR writers who do much better than average research and though this is not the time to go through the accuracy arguments again, it’s such a lovely bonus when you learn something new that sends you off on your own research and reading. In my case, it’s been 52 years of following up an author I first encountered at 18 and I foresee no end to it!
I am married to an American history nut, who actually has a Masters Degree in the field. So (often against my will), I am taught much about our nation’s history. He had heard of the Regulation conflicts, but only barely. I knew nothing about it. So it was with great pleasure that I was able to inform him for once about some of the finer points of those uprisings.
I have learned SO much from reading romance novels! I’ve learned about history and social issues and specific life experiences (island castaway, snowbound, spy on the run, new tech popular with teens, etc). my favorite is something sparking my interest and then I further self educate, not out of requirement but pure interest.
The first time I read Flowers from the Storm by Kinsale, I loved it so much and was so fascinated by the descriptions of the poor historical treatment of the mentally ill. I can remember doing lots of research in college and ultimately switched a psychology minor to a major.
I love that story. I too was blown away by the asylum in Flowers by the Storm.
I haven’t read “Flowers by the Storm,” but that brings up a good point. Works of fiction can often be a catalyst for research. And sometimes, they actually help create social change. “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest,” which I have read, is one such book.
I have learned procrastination and with a good book in hand I have learned to ignore husband, children, housework and sometimes sleep. It’s a life long lesson, I am afraid!
I love this. I have been famous, in my family, ever since I was small, for not doing what I was supposed to be doing because I was… reading. It’s my favorite.
My (now adult) children like to remind me of a time long ago when my husband suggested I tend to some chore or another in my “spare time.” To which I responded, “I have no spare time. Everything I do, I do to free up more time for reading.”
“my tribe”
Yes! Definitely ignoring housework and sometimes sleep is essential to a happy book life!
Well, as Quentin Crisp often said in his message of hope for the women of England and America, “[Don’t do housework]. After the first four years, the dust doesn’t get any worse.”
I play trivia every week and people in my team are often surprised by the obscure answers I know. My explanation is generally “I read it in a book.” I can usually remember which book, and often it will be a romance, especially a historical romance I read back in the day when they all had actual history in them….
Ditto to the comments about Kelly and Balogh for the Regency period (I remember being surprised that you could just buy yourself into being an army officer, and it was in a romance that I first learned about Princess Charlotte whose death changed the course of history). Old Harlequin historicals for American history (I’m Australian so had heaps to learn about the Civil War, War of Independence and the frontier in general), Medieval romances for the reigns of various kings, jousting, life in a castle, etc. (I once knew a trivia answer about Toledo steel from reading about medieval swordmaking.)
And the contemporaries I mostly read now have taught me about American college life and so much about ice hockey (I finally checked out some highlights on YouTube the other day and was surprised by how small the arena is – like a modified soccer field for little kids – but the skills are amazing).
Perhaps the most important thing romance has done for me is make me understand better the experiences of people who are LGBTIQA. I’ve done various inclusion and diversity courses as part of my job, but no training course can compare with becoming immersed in the characters of the books I only started reading because I was jaded by the same old dynamic and plots I’d read a thousand times before, When Australia finally legislated for marriage equality in 2017 I was crying tears of joy because of those book characters, as well as the gay couples I actually know in real life.
Thanks for giving so many specific examples of learning experiences from romance. It jogged my memory as well. Without getting into spoilers, I recall a romance heroine defended herself against an assailant with her busk, which she had sharpened to fashion it into a weapon. Now, I knew what a busk was before, but only because I had first seen the word in “Forever Amber,” a historical fiction. (It is not exactly a romance, but it certainly has romantic elements.)
“Perhaps the most important thing romance has done for me is make me understand better the experiences of people who are LGBTIQA.” Yes, and there were certainly a lot of movies that did this as well. For example, “La Cage Aux Folles” was groundbreaking, and ran in first run theaters for about two years in San Francisco.
A lesser known gay work that proved highly influential for its time was the British made for TV movie “A Naked Civil Servant,” which was a biographical film about Quentin Crisp. What astonished audiences, and particularly spoke to many gays, was how the movie accurately portrayed Quentin Crisp as an effeminate homosexual who had a sex life rather than an effeminate homosexual who existed solely for comic relief. Make no mistake. The film is delightful and funny in between its more challenging moments. But it’s funny because Mr. Crisp was known for his sparkling Oscar Wildesque wit, not because “Ha ha. He’s a gay guy who wears makeup. Let’s all laugh.” Anyway, I highly recommend both movies. And I have additional suggestions if anyone is interested.
To wrap this up, books and movies can definitely be powerful.
That’s a lovely insight. Thanks for sharing that.
Gee, I’ve learned tons of history from romance books. I learned about the Regent’s ugly relationship with his wife, the line of succession of Victoria, tons of history from Carla Kelly especially. I knew about the pineapples from romances, so that when I see them in colonial America’s carvings, etc., I know why. Can you even imagine eating a pineapple for the first time? I remember the first time I had a fresh one!, One of the few “first” of food I can remember. Lots of English history, as well as Scotish.
Pineapples are certainly an interesting fruit. They’re both pretty and delicious!
In addition to their use as a centerpiece in Colonial America, sailors’ and sea captains’ wives would stick them outside to welcome their husbands home. But according to historical Chef Staib, those “welcome home” pineapples also had a more lurid meaning. Just like men who were away at sea sometimes had a woman in every port, the wives of sailors sometimes took lovers as well. So if a woman put out a pineapple to welcome home her husband, it was also a warning to her lover as in, “Stay away- hubby’s home!”
In recent pineapple history, a woman in Spain developed a textile from the husks. She calls the material “Pinatex,” and it is like faux leather. Experiments for its use are still in development. Before a few years ago, those pretty green tops were mostly a waste product.
On a final pineapple note, I incorporated a rather naughty use for one in one of my m/m erotica novellas, but I won’t delve into that here unless someone is *really* curious.
Romance novels remind me of how important mutual respect between couples is in a relationship. In some ways they often present a fantasy of the perfect man or perfect woman, and the reality for many women especially is that men in real life rarely fare well compared to the standard a romance author creates. Sometimes the fantasy of the perfect partner seems too unrealistic, but the values embodied in the representation are important to follow in life.
Well, it’s also true then that women rarely fare well compared to the standard many a romance author creates.
I’m a bit uncomfortable with the idea that men are the problem. People who don’t respect others are the problem.
“People who don’t respect others are the problem.” You are spot on. I can also get uncomfortable when a particular group is singled out for being “the problem.” Groups, after all, are comprised of individuals.
I’ve never bought into the idea that feminism means defining men as the problem. Sexism is the problem. Institutionalized structures are often the problem. Those who can only see what benefits themselves are often the problem. But men writ large–I don’t see anything useful in consigning the sex to less than.
Patriarchy and the accompanying ideologies and practices of sexism and misogyny are the problem. Feminists do not claim men are the problem, or at least any of the feminisms I define, subscribe to, or study.
The reason I said “especially” for women is that women are largely the readership and authorship of the romance genre. But yes, as I said above in my post, mutual respect is key for me when I read romances. Unfortunately for the genre, that has not always been the case. Many romance writers today are addressing mutual respect via issues of consent, constructing men who are feminists, and women who are attentive to finding men who treat them as equals in a relationship.
And I guess I would add too, though I think some may not want to think in these terms and may not like what I have to say here, but we do not live in a post-feminist world (just as we don’t live in a post-racial world). We are still living within patriarchy and struggling as a society to come to terms with all that this means. It is still surprising to me at times to encounter equality in romantic and sexual depictions in popular fiction as those depictions still feel fresh and even radical.
In Susan Ann Phillips’ Heaven, Texas, the hero says something about George Strait, and the heroine says she doesn’t know anything about him. The hero says something like “Here in Texas we think of him as a god.”
Well, this New York girl didn’t know anything about country music either, but I was curious and listened some of his music. I got completely hooked on country music, and I’ve gotta say, Bobby Tom was right. George Strait IS a god.
To add something on topic, I’ve learned a lot more about the regency period from romance novels than I ever did at school. Everything from the Napoleonic wars, to life at sea, to Christmas traditions, to the goings-on in Ireland and Scotland. (Thanks to Carla Kelly and Dinah Dean in particular!)
Amazon is supposed to link to us no matter what IF you clickin to Amazon DIRECTLY from our site.
Looking at links, it looks as if it might work if you add &linkCode=w61&tag=allaboutromance
to an address but I can’t promise it will work.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07P5G8SQL/ref=as_li_tl?imprToken=yeQedXlAA0kGcdhNFBjcBw&slotNum=3&ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B07P5G8SQL&linkCode=w61&tag=allaboutromance
Thanks, I’ll try it.
On occasion I prefer the German site, but so far none of the links from AAR have sent me there, so I want to try a work-around.
Thanks.
Pardon for asking in this unrelated thread, but what do we need to add to the Amazon URL for AAR to get a portion of the money?
Sometimes when I click on one of your links I end up at the American site and sometimes the British. But what if I want to buy from one of the other sites?
Is it http://www.amazon.[COUNTRY]/ref=as_li_ss_tl?
When I first started reading HR, I was surprised by some of the sophisticated vocabulary that had me reaching for the dictionary. Like many, I once had the misconception that romance novels were somehow “simple.” Boy, was I proven wrong!
I appreciate when HR authors include back matter to describe their research or sources of inspiration. For example, Mary Jo Putney’s book “Once a Scoundrel” features a sea captain hero who has to transport a menagerie of exotic animals to help pay for a ransom and free the heroine. Improbable? One would think. But her explanation in the back of the book regarding a similar historical incident proved fascinating. It also helped dispel concerns that the author just had an overactive imagination without any concrete, real-life basis.
Beverly Jenkins is excellent about providing historical resources in the backs of her HRs for readers to learn more about the settings she chooses and stories she creates. I know she has lamented she feels pressure to justify the plausibility of her stories starring black heroes and heroines in historical settings outside of the Civil War and Civil Rights Eras. But heck! I wish *more* HR writers would include such detailed back matter.
Eloisa James (who I don’t think I’ve read yet) mentioned in an interview that she learned pineapples were rented for Regency parties as a table centerpiece/conversation piece as they were too costly to eat. So she created a visiting American heroine who commits an expensive faux pas by eating a slice of one just meant for decoration!
You never know what you’ll discover in a romance novel.
I think I’ve also learned the most from Beverly Jenkin’s books, because it’s really hidden history to most white Americans. And Erin Satie puts interesting facts in her books.
I think the history is hidden to most Americans, period. But it’s great when authors like Ms. Jenkins dig up historical tidbits and expand them into a story that entertains as well as educates.
I nominate Linda Howard as the author who has taught me the most specialized knowledge about how to survive in extreme situations and outrun bad guys. Think about Son of the Morning and how she lives on the run, then how to keep any lottery winnings secret from Burning, plus who can forget how to survive a plane crash in Up Close and Dangerous?
Victoria Dahl’s contemporary romances had great sex scenes in them and I picked up a few very good pointers from them. ;)
Great question—and an interesting coincidence that you should ask it today because I was just thinking about something similar yesterday. I’m sure over the years I’ve learned a tremendous amount from romance novels, but my brain is like a magpie and I’m reading all the time, so after a few days I can’t always remember the source from which I learned a particular piece of information, but yesterday (between cooking and eating) I started a book called COVET by Ella James (not to be confused with Elle James, also a romance writer). The book is set on the island of Tristan da Cunha, which is apparently the most remote inhabited island in the world. Having never heard of Tristan da Cunha, I had to google it to determine if it was a real place. It is—and here’s the Wikipedia entry:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tristan_da_Cunha
There’s a wealth of information in COVET about how the inhabitants live and work together on this isolated place where supply ships come by every three months and everyone has to be able to wear many hats. I haven’t finished the book yet, but the love story (which is rather downbeat and involves the island’s de-facto nurse and an American professional athlete who has come to the island in part to try to kick a drug addiction, the symptoms of which are viscerally described) seems to be taking a backseat to the lives of the hardy islanders and their self-sufficient way of life. This is the first book I’ve read by Ella James, but I will certainly check out more of her work—she’s a wonderful writer with a real way with describing natural landscapes.
Somewhat o/t, but I think it was Sandra Brown who said one of the reasons she started reading (and later writing) romance novels was when she took her car in for service and she was sitting in the waiting room and picked up a battered copy of a Kathleen Woodiwiss book that happened to be there. She said she learned more about the Norman Conquest of England in the first 50 pages of the story than she’d ever learned in school…and she never looked back.
P.S. Re your mom’s turkey soup: My late father used to make turkey neck soup every Thanksgiving and Christmas. The whole house would be redolent with the smell of sage. It didn’t seem as if it could be Thanksgiving or Christmas without that soup (which would simmer on the stove all day and we would consume in massive bowls with crusty bread). A lovely sense memory.
I’ve learned a lot from reading romance novels. Lately, I’ve learned more about how social media works than I ever wanted to know! I discovered why it’s called a ‘hat trick’ in hockey, and the incredible demands placed on U.S. Navy SEALS. But mostly reading romance is an ongoing lesson in the redemptive power of love; how it can change you and your life, and how necessary it is to our well being as humans.