Jon and Kate: Well, You Made This Bed, Didn't You?
First of all, I’ve never made a regular habit of watching Jon and Kate Plus 8, that adorable Learning Channel show in which the adorable couple raise their adorable twins and adorable sextuplets.
But you’d have to be living under the proverbial rock to have missed the sordid state their marriage has come to. And, yes, I’ve gotten caught up in it, god help me.
If you were lucky enough to spend the last few months away from the media maelstrom, here are the headlines: He’s screwing a 23 year-old. She’s doing her bodyguard. And the country, my god, the entire country, is capitivated.
Here’s what bugs me: The tone the media takes about Kate. She’s a harpy, she led Jon to this because she is, apparently, an emasculating, ball-busting bitch. Oh, and her haircut is really bad, too.
See, I knew this Hillary thing was a rocky slope. Things were said about her during the campaign – and I’m talking about major media types like Keith Olbermann – and there’s no going back to more civilized times. Once that damn was burst, the kind of sexism I haven’t seen in years has once again become mainstream acceptable.
I didn’t watch the show for more than a few minutes at a time now and then, so I am shooting out of my ass here. Maybe she’s a bitch. (Maybe that’s got something to do with the fact that she’s the one with primary responsibility for eight children, but, hey, what do I know?) But Jon – yes, he of the hollow eyes and no balls – is a grownup who chose to have multiple children. I watched the show on Monday night and it’s perfectly clear that he’s disengaged from the family. (Hey, Jon, you’ve got eight children. Disengaging is not an option.)
Major media coverage! Major ratings! (And, okay, hypocrisy alert: I watched it, too.)
And then this on the People.com Web site: You, the cable-grazing American TV viewer, are invited to vote on whether or not you think Jon and Kate will make it.
Can anybody say gladiators?
I know that raising eight children is hideously expensive and I’m willing to bet that money played as big a role in their decision to star in a reality TV show as Kate’s ruthless quest for stardom (or so the story goes).
But Jon got in that boat with both eyes wide open and right now I don’t like him. Not one little bit. In fact, I’m cheering Kate on as she goes straight for his balls. Have fun, dear.
Rant over.
-Sandy AAR
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Regarding child labor laws and the Gosselins, I found this link: http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b125497_Do_Child_Labor_Laws_Apply_to__i_Jon___Kate__i__s_Kids_.html?intcid=home_coverflow-blog-Do_Child_Labor_Laws_Apply_to__i_Jon___Kate__i__s
Here’s what it says in part:
No, Jon and Kate Gosselin’s plus-eight do not fall under the kinds of kiddie labor laws enjoyed by peers who work on scripted film or TV sets, attorneys tell me. Here’s why…
…courtesy of attorney Paul Moretti, who served as an on-set film safety expert before moving into his own labor law practice.
If anyone tried to take this issue to a judge, Moretti says, “chances are, courts would say this doesn’t count as labor, because the children are doing things they would be doing whether there was a camera or not.
“Show producers are not taking the kids away from their studies, making them memorize lines, or taking them away from socialization,” says Moretti, who also answers legal questions for JustAnswer.com.
“The law would probably say that when the children are sitting at home using a coloring book or going to a soccer game, and they’re being filmed, they’re not doing someone else’s business. They’re doing their own business.”
Translation: When a TV show has a script, kids can only work a set number of hours per day, they must have a certain number of breaks per day, and they must have on-set tutors to ensure their studies do not slide.
A reality-show camera can track children from morning to night, parents can rake in wagonloads of cash, and Moretti knows of no laws that can change that on behalf of the child.
One other thing to consider: Attorney Lisa Pierson Weinberger of Greenberg Glusker points out that kids on shows like these might not even be getting any money—thus their time in front of the camera isn’t “labor.”
Ah, very well said Lee. I can imagine what the public would think if cameras were in my house as well. My husband and I are 2 middle children…enough said. I think the only negative thing I’ve ever thought about the family is that Kate and Jon really can’t spend a lot of one-on-one time with any of the children. I know..they did “the day with one child” thing, but they never really have that alone time with their parents. On the up side…they always have a friend around…someone to play with and confide in. My view is that Jon is just fed up with it all. I don’t blame her or him. I always have had the feeling that they have a great love for their children, and that is really important and exactly what might make the kids really great adults. It’s too soon to write the kids off as failures because of all this.
After reading through all these intelligent, well-thought-out posts, I had to add another comment. For one thing, I don’t think these kids ever had a chance at having a “normal” childhood, whatever normal means. They are sextuplets, and that sets them apart, for good or ill, whether they seek it or not. So, yeah, I think the fishbowl existence is increased for them because of the show, but at least there is _some_ benefit (financial) to compensate them for the stares and questions which would be directed at them regardless. And the whole “their marriage is over” thing is an overreaction, I think. How long have they been married? Ten years? I’ve been married more than twice that, and, to be honest, if every argument had been taped, we wouldn’t look so hot either. You have your moments of resentment, anger, boredom, disgust, betrayal together with the love. That’s marriage. It’s not all sunshine and roses. But if you take the commitment seriously, you get through it, get over it, and come out stronger. And that’s before the kids (never mind 8 of them), which just increases the problems, together with increasing the love. This is a rough patch for them, no doubt about it. But I think there’s a good chance they’ll make it if they really want to. And staying for the kids is not always a bad thing, if there’s no abuse going on. Sometimes it’s just what is needed to stop and take a breath and look around to see how really lucky one is and to try again.
I haven’t watched every episode of this show but have seen enough to get an idea of what it’s like in the Gosselin house.
Donna Lea – I think Kate is so strict and there have been episodes about the film crew and how long they can stay in the house etc. The problem is I think Kate is more about ‘this is my domain – no cameras in the kitchen’ and no shoes etc. I also *think* there are rules about if the children retreat to their rooms the cameras can’t follow.
Watching the show I noticed Jon quit his job and then there were many shots of him golfing and playing around. Kate was still very much there in the home at the time.
There’s a part of me that wonders if Jon discovered being the sole parent is damn hard and well, I guess he doesn’t get his own play time now that Kate is away and working outside the house.
And all this crap about Kate’s hair? It’s been like that for a least a few years now – she’s always had a kind of style going although now it’s more clear cut and obvious. I think before she probably ran her hands through her hair so much just trying to stay sane. Now the kids are older, you have more time to take care of yourself too.
Then there is the judgment going on about the tummy tuck and hair plugs. Neither Kate or Jon asked for these things. The tummy tuck was offered after an episode where Kate showed the belly skin she had hanging from having 6 babies at once. A plastic surgeon saw this and obviously knew it would be good business to offer a free tummy tuck. Hey, I would take it if someone offered. The same thing with the hair plugs (I’m not sure Jon ever mentioned his receding hairline but someone noticed and offered free hair plugs).
I’ve pay little attention to tabloids and honestly, I thought this was all going to be a big joke so I was surprised by the episode on Monday. Course, I’d never seen the picture of a young woman on Jon and Kate’s front lawn sunning herself in a bikini. Stupidity in the extreme.
Like many, I feel bad for the kids. At some point Jon and Kate have to realize saying stuff like ‘I’m just here for the kids’ is going to come back to bite their kids in the butt. Also the comment about divorce rates among families with multiples – I sure hope the kids don’t take that to heart!
Cindys
Today, on The View they discussed this, but I was listening with half an ear, so I don’t know the details. I believe, and I might be wrong on this, but I think there is some law that may be applied to this show. Having to do with the children getting their share of the money to be put in a trust and also limiting the number of hours they can be filmed.
I know, I know… I need to get a life, but I do have a question for anyone interested:
Child actors are protected by laws that prevent them from being exploited or ‘worked’ too hard, but no such law exists for reality show kids. There is some agitation to write one.
Does anyone think a law is needed, and would it change how Jon and Kate Plus 8 is filmed?
Very well said JulieLeto. I see things mostly as you do. It’s funny…before Jon had is supposed affair, nobody cared about all these things. No cameras following them around and all or covers on numerous tabloids.
Donna Lea, once again, I agree with you 100%! Your analysis is balanced and fair to both parties. I couldn’t have said it better, thanks!
After watching the show on Monday night I began to wonder if Jon is suffering from major depression. I hope he gets some help.
I’ve never watched the show or paid much attention to it really. However, I can’t help but wonder how much of the drama is for publicity and ratings, etc? They certainly have the attention now. Regardless, poor kids.
OTOH…
I think I *finally* get what you’re saying, Sandy… (I’m not slow on the uptake… no, not me!) I just saw the headline on some magazine ‘From Mom to Monster’ with photos of Kate before and after her makeover. Wow. *Monster*? Because of a makeover? Why is *she* the ‘monster’? If it’s about the marital breakdown, well, as I’ve said all along, they seem to be about equal parts responsible for that.
I would never put any woman down for being strong-minded, opinionated, ambitious or tough. I hope I embody some of those traits myself, though as most people, I fall far from the mark too often.
But being strong and opinionated is a far different thing than being rude and deliberately humiliating others. Those I love can rest assured, I will never put them down in public, I will never humiliate them, nor will I speak ill of them to others. Kate does all of that to and about Jon and has all along, though it has steadily gotten worse. It’s like the catty friend you like at first, because she’s funny, but then you begin to get uncomfortable with how cruel she can be to others, and you back away.
In a very public sense that is what is happening to Kate right now. At first the sarcasm was funny, until it became painful to watch her put her husband down in front of the children and all of America, on camera. And she can’t seem to see herself objectively.
She is certainly to blame for her own words, but Jon, grow a backbone! The one time he did take Kate to task for treating him like a poorly behaved dog in front of a store full of people she was absolutely puzzled. Really? Kate, you can’t see how that’s inappropriate and humiliating?
But he bugs me as much; the hangdog expression, the ‘whipped dog’ demeanor. There is a reason those telling phrases include the word ‘dog’ I suppose, in that an abused dog has that same kind of hopeless, cringing demeanor. I suppose he might strike back more often, but she often makes fun of him for his lack of verbal ability. She picks on his vocabulary, she mocks his pronunciation.
I used to watch because though I’m not a ‘baby’ or ‘kid’ kind of person, the family interaction was interesting. I’m a reality show junkie, so it was just another in a spectrum of shows I watched. And there were moments of genuine affection at first, but those got fewer and fewer.
The turning points, I think, were when her ambitions clashed with what he needed to do to keep any sense of autonomy. Her need to travel to publicize the book I suppose necessitated him quitting working outside the home, but I do believe that some people, both men and women, *need* to work outside the home to keep a balance and sense of self. My Mom needed to work outside of the home and RAN back to the work force the moment I was in school. When Jon stopped having a life outside of the home, I think the last shreds of his self-esteem died.
If Jon and Kate are truly mostly concerned with the kids college fund, as they’ve said all along, surely something less than the 1.3 million dollar home and ‘estate’ would have sufficed, and the money could have been contributed to a registered education savings plan?? I would never denigrate someone for becoming successful, but it just feels like it is on the backs of the kids, and the ostentatious display feels over the top.
I think they separated themselves from the average American family when they moved into the huge home; it made them less relatable.
I hate hate hate the intervention of the paparazzi, but in the season opening show it was interesting to watch; Kate uses the word first, saying, ‘C’mon kids, we have to hurry because the paparazzi are stalking us’, then she can’t understand how the kids ever learned that word, and doesn’t want them to say it. Here’s a clue; don’t use the word in front of the kids in the first place.
I think both Jon and Kate should have put the show on hold (Kate apparently just signed a new two year contract in the midst of this?) so they can work things out away from the cameras. I think this mess has cured me of one of my reality show fixes.
GinA –
I entirely agree with you that one may dislike Hillary Clinton as a person and disagree with her politics, and say this loudly and clearly – but without the type of comments that Sandy was referring to, the ones that implied that she was somehow “wrong” as a woman or a wife, and that vilified her for that reason. I can’t quote anything at the moment, but a number of comments did that. Mind you, there was something similar going on with Sarah Palin, although IMO not quite as strong as with Clinton, but that possibly only because she into the public eye later.
I can’t recall any male politician who was judged, even reviled in such a manner for strong-mindedness, and ambition, and the determination to succeed both as politician and as wife/husband and mother/father like these two were. There was a great deal of vitriol there, both for HRC and SP, to a degree you hardly ever find with men, and that’s what I consider sexist about it.
Regarding Hillary Clinton and the election…well she was skewered by the media.. Keith Olbermann and Chris Matthews were practically spitting on themselves they were so pissed when there was no clear winner yet. No sexism? I think you’d have to live under a rock to not see it. I think Fox gave better coverage to HRC than MSNBC and thats not saying much. And for how she handled BC’s philandering, I think she handled it with dignity and is now doing a remarkable job as Secretary of State.
I share Xina’s impression that Kate is simply a drill sergeant of sorts…but I’ve watched the show A LOT and have from the beginning. I never liked Jon and always thought he was a bit of a whiner…but I did have high hopes for them. Watching the premiere (and by the way, they DID make a big deal about the new house in the last episode last season and previously as they’d been searching and searching for a house with more room) was so sad for me. Mostly for her. She’s out there supporting her family, making sure her kids have the best–and that’s not a crime. Many women have to work long hours for their kids. Their father was home with them–why is she a villain for working hard and making sure her kids will have a college education and everything else? It’s one thing to have eight kids all spread out…but she’s going to have eight kids all starting college at the same time. Driving cars at the same time (priced insurance lately?) Not to mention Cara and Maddy starting only two years before. She has a gift. She has an ability to communicate well and she should be able to go out and use that talent to make money. Having money doesn’t make someone a bad parent, especially if they’ve worked for it, which she has.
Women attack women all the time and it sickens me. If you want to attack a mother of multiples, go after the Octomom. Kate Gosselin has done what she has to for her children to have a great life–the same life they might have had if they’d been born one at a time. I admire her. But I guess that shows.
That said, I don’t vilify Jon, either. I feel sorry for him. He’s clearly adrift and I can see him floating out of his children’s lives and being very sorry for it. But if he cheated, it wasn’t Kate’s fault. He made his own choices and he has to live with them. For me, I can’t abide passive-aggressive people. Own your anger if you have it. I don’t like him, but I do have sympathy for him and I hope he finds what he’s looking for without having to dump his family in the process.
I’ve watched the show from the beginning and it makes me sad that they are having problems, like it would for anyone that is facing marital problems regardless of the reasons. Like any normal couple making a marriage work is very hard especially with children. Add cameras on top of that and it is a recipe for disaster. No marriage is perfect and I’m sure that many couples out there have faced similar problems but living with cameras in your face and other people hearing what should be private matters makes it worse. I hope they can turn the cameras off and deal with this privately.
I guess I had quite a different view of the show. I thought the children were cute and very sweet…most of the time. And I thought Kate seemed to handle her situation, somewhat like a drill sergeant. I sort of admired her for the absolute control she seemed to have. As I was watching…on and off, I thought she did a good job with organizing the troops…so to speak. I did become a bit suspicious when they moved to that humongous house and began to wonder at their monentary compensation for the show. Felt the same about Little People Big World. Wow…reality TV shows must pay well. I think people judging them is a little bit sad, but what goes up, must come down. Be careful what you wish for. One day you have a sweet family on TV, and the next you are splashed across the tabloids and the public is calling you a “bitch”. I wish them well, whatever happens. I am not watching the show anymore simply because I don’t stare at a car wreck….same goes with this show. And for the record….I was a fan of Hillary too. Still am.
Maybe some people didn’t like Hillary Clinton because she was a woman, but I didn’t like her because of HER. I didn’t like her politics. I didn’t like the role she tried to shoehorn into during her husband’s administration (you’re not elected, appointed, or approved by any Constitutional method. Why are you writing health care policies?) I don’t like either her or Bill’s skeezy connections or their foreign or domestic policies. And I would not respect a man OR a woman who responeded to their spouse’s philandering the way H. Clinton did.
Anyway, I don’t mean to threadjack into politics, but I hate the kneejerk playing of the “sexism” card. Please give those of us who disliked her (or even those who simply prefererred Obama) the credit of not assuming we only think about a politician’s genitals.
I watched the program on and off since it first aired those years ago. Anyone who pays any attention to body signs had to notice the changes in the both of them as it went on. It’s not that I’m totally surprised by what happened in their marriage, as much as a bit saddened that it did. And as others said, my reaction stems mostly from concerns about the children, who are so delightful (well, at least most of them). Actually, I would think all those constant cameras and action around them cannot be a very healthy way to live, only my opinion.
When one puts themselves out in the public eye, then they should not be surprised about any public reactions to what they do. You cannot do a show such as this once a week, then expect absolute privacy when you’re noticed on the streets. I was one of those who also watched the first show of this season; because, I admit it, I’m just as curious as the next person. I’m interested in how it will play out in the TV arena they chose to be in. It’s not that different from movie stars in Hollywood. If they’re at all recognizable, their lives are a fishbowl, unless they go thru great pains to live separate from that life, which a few have successfully done.
What really bugs me is the religious angle – sort of downplayed in the show – but a big part of the book (or is it books?) she’s out touting. The hypocrisy is mind boggling. I feel sorry for those kids – they’ve become the big cash cow.
I ‘ve watched the show enough to be completely unsurprised by recent developments, and, as others have written, it is the lack of self awareness, the act of being observed which in itself changes behavior, the seduction of BIG money, all combined with innate character traits that have brought the Gosselins to this point.
I watched Monday night and I have decided not to watch any more.
I’m more like Virginia DeMarco — I saw the cover story on People magazine at the grocery checkout recently but had no idea who these people were. I know now but am not really interested. I feel sorry for all concerned, but mostly for the children.
I’m pretty much in the same situation as BethW; as much as I get a kick out of watching other reality television shows like “Survivor” or “The Amazing Race”, watching shows that feature families with lots of small children makes me feel very uncomfortable. As BethW said, it’s really a form of child exploitation, and you can’t convince me that having a reality show similar to “Jon & Kate” wasn’t in the back of OctoMom’s mind when she had all those children!
If the parents in these reality shows truly had their children’s best interests at heart, they would find some way to support their families other than putting their children in the public eye. After all, the children didn’t ASK to be on television!
I’m not a fan of Kate — sorry I’ve seen her belittle and slap Jon in the arms so many times. Her best line to Jon — your breathing to loud or something like that!!!! And the sad thing is — Jon just sat there and did nothing.
I have no idea who is at fault — but my heart goes out to the children.
Meant ‘caught’… not ‘got’.
I’ve got the show in small spurts and it made me uncomfortable. It was like rewinding my life to my prior marriage but with only 2 children.
An unhappy marriage and I was a shrew. My ex was a doormat. Too similar. And now TV fame is eating this family alive. Poor kids.
I haven’t watched them much and refuse to watch them anymore (or any of the other “mega-families” type shows that are on these days) as I think it’s exploitation of the children.
The thing that really bothers me about them now is that Kate is apparently travelling about 75% of the time, making appearances to talk about parenting. She charges up to (and maybe more than?) $150 per person to see her speak. They get $75,000 per episode of J&K+8. Yes, having 8 children is expensive, but I know people who have 8, 9 children who probably make $30,000 -$40,000 a year, if that – and while they certainly don’t have the $1.1 million home and all sorts of trips everywhere and matching clothes for everyone, they are well fed, happy, and healthy. It can be done. You don’t have to exploit your children to raise them well.
This: http://www.detnews.com/article/20090521/OPINION03/905210449/1031
is a great open letter to Kate, from a woman who is a certified parenting coach and saw her speak recently.
Still, I think some of the back and forth banter between Jon and Kate wasn’t meant to hurt. I’ve always thought she has a rather dry sense of humor. Some people are sarcastic in the way she is and it is thought of as humor. Jon was probably well aware of that part of her personality.
I agree 100% with Donna Lea’s assessment. Kate treats Jon very badly in front of the cameras, I can only guess how bad it is when they are alone. This is in part Jon’s fault, she treats him like that because he hasn’t stopped her. When choosing a spouse, one should choose wisely and then treat kindly (quoting Dr. Laura’s). They are setting a terrible example for their children. The boys will be weak, wishy-washy, ineffective men; the girls will be shrewish, inconsiderate, and domineering. Each of them need to give themselves long, hard, unflinching looks and take measures before it’s too late for the children, even if it’s already too late to save their marriage.
I have never watched Kate & Jon, as the show is not aired here in Germany, but there is one married couple in my extended family, now married for more than 40 years, like whom this sounds a lot. They don’t like each other any longer, and although they don’t quarrel in public (like at family functions) they use every opportunity for snide remarks and little setdowns. It’s very uncomfortable to be around them on bad days, and it’s a bitch for the children, even though they are grown up by now.
I agree with Sandy it’s horrible how certain sexist remarks were suddenly acceptable in mainstream media when it came to Hillary Clinton, and it’s nasty to see this is spreading to other women. There is a certain way of denigrating a woman that simply doesn’t exist for a man, and I hate to see it employed in media discourse.
I did watch the show whenever I could. Not so much the first season, because watching so many babies at once…sort of makes my head spin. However…the seasons following that were pretty entertaining, especially when they got to be 2 and 3. While watching, I always had the impression that Jon just dragged his feet along and Kate was his parent as much as the children. Also, I never felt that he was madly in love with her…didn’t appreciate her energy so much. Sure, she appears to be bossy, but what does one do with 8 children…6, very young. The older girl Maddie would drive me more crazy than Kate. She’s a bit of a brat and may reflect what goes on between her parents. I don’t know.
I really don’t think I”ll watch anymore after viewing the show last night, because now, it’s not about the kids, but about Jon and Kate and their crappy marriage. I really don’t care who did what. As for Jon, it wouldn’t surprise me if the affairs were true. I never really liked him.
I’ve watched the show from the beginning and I can understand doing it for the money because of the cost of raising all those children. Kate herself has said she did it for the money for the kids. By now, after 5 years though, they should have plenty of money for all that and be able to go back to a semi normal life. They didn’t really mention it in the show opener but that house is clearly not the same home they lived in last year. It is beautiful and looks new. IMHO, they should have taken the money after a few seasons, been grateful for it, and stopped the show.
In the first years, they were much more involved in their kids lives. Now it’s easy to see a lot of background help is going on. Who was watching the kids while she set up the Birthday party at the picnic grounds? It wasn’t Jon. They never show the nannies. They did a show once and said it was only them and a production crew who did not help. Yeah right.
As others have said, I think Jon is a passive aggressive type. I think it was People that said Kate fired 40 people in a month or so. One lady because she washed her hands in the kitchen sink and she said that was cross contamination. She is too much of a control freak! It would drive me crazy to live with someone like that!
Well. I’d not only never watched the show . . . I’d never previously heard of it.
Or of them.
Hey Donna – just to be sure there’s no misunderstanding about my Tina Fey comment – what I meant is that we strong, resolutely intelligent women should take back the word “bitch” and OWN it, so that we cannot be labelled so in a derogatory manner, much as blacks retook the n word and gays retook the “faggot” label. The label doesn’t have any power against us if we wear it proudly. (And I wouldn’t advocate doing the same with the c word, because to me at least, it’s more vulgar).
And I have not seen the show, so I don’t know if Kate has earned the “bitch” label or not, but if she has 8 kids and a weenie husband, no matter how many nannies and housekeepers, she’s in the running.
Eh, it’s all a part of the gleeful schadenfreude of reality tv. I hope that thinking people will see that in Jon’s case he is no more a victim than she is. In some cases passivity is an active way to undermine another person.
But her behavior has so far been over the line that I have little pity for her, I reserve that for the children.
Maybe I’m a little oversensitive from personal issues, but I have heard her say – and this was a coupe of years ago before all of this public blow-up – as John was skateboarding down the street, having some fun, and she said to the kids, “Don’t worry kids, Daddy’s not running away… *this* time. Maybe some day he will, but not today.”
TO the children. Kids don’t understand irony or sarcasm, and they are listening, trust me on this. The smallest thing like that can resonate. She said things like that other times, too, and it seemed a deliberate attempt to belittle him in front of their children, or make them doubt his commitment to them. Regardless of what their personal problems are, don’t say shit like that in front of the kids.
They are pretty equally to blame, from what I can see.
But I didn’t really think you were really equating Kate with Hillary, Sandy… I know where you stand on Hillary, and if I was American, I would have been along side of you on that.
@Lee: LOL.
Donna, I was not comparing Kate to Hillary. I was referring to the way in which sexism is again mainstream. Hillary was the first victim. If they can get away with it with HER, well, then, gee, we’re all acceptable targets.
I supported Hillary Clinton until the last possible moment. I was both amazed and disgusted by the things that I saw and heard.
Just as I am amazed by the things being said about Kate. Reality TV is about as far from reality as it’s possible to get. I know that. I also know that huge boatlods of crap are falling firmly down on Kate’s reverse mullet-ed head while Jon gets to play the hapless victim.
It ain’t fair. But then who said life was fair?
Ooops, I meant ‘marital’ breakdown, not martial. LOL.
I personally would never label a woman a bitch simply because she is strong and opinionated. After all, I am strong and opinionated.
But I also would never, in public, treat someone I loved like a badly behaved dog. C’mon, she knows the cameras are on! I see her behavior as part of the breaking down of their relationship; she treats him like that because he allows it. The particular instance I’m thinking of he did protest how she treated him in public, humiliating him as she did (it felt deliberate), and she was completely oblivious to how she sounded, which is what I mean by both of their lack of self-awareness.
But… Jon’s passive-agressiveness is equally to blame for the martial breakdown.
Am I advocating that women need to be meek and mild? No way! And again, I do not think that a strong woman is a bitch. But neither do I think that Kate Gosselin’s bitchiness can be equated with Hillary Clinton’s strong, resolute intelligence.
I don’t watch TV anymore, but it’s hard to miss this trainwreck. Poor Kate, poor Jon, and mostly poor kids. There is no way I’d ever let the press in on my life. There is not enough money in the universe.
I don’t watch the show a lot – mostly catch a few minutes every once in awhile…although I did watch the show on Monday evening while flying home from vacation. I agree with everything that was said in the blog post by Sandy and it drives me nuts that when you have a strong opinionated woman she is automatically labeled a bitch. I think that people have to keep in mind that this show is taped over numerous hours and condensed into 30 minute segments – of course they are going to put in the most dramatic moments for the tv viewers. As for Jon, he is beginning to drive me insane with his poor me mentality – I think he is jealous that the media wants Kate to do all of the promoting for their books and he gets left behind…be a man and own up to your part of the relationship and family and the admit that a relationship takes two people to mess it up and two people to work at it!
In the immortal words of Tina Fey: “Bitches get things done!” I need that on a bumper sticker.
Hey, Sandy,
I have been a watcher.
Kate *is* a bitch, but Jon is a passive-aggressive weenie. Both bear the of responsibility in this pretty equally, but here are my thoughts, for better or worse, based on what makes it onto the camera, and I’m aware that a whole lot likely doesn’t.
I’ve known couples like this, and I would bet not a single one made it past ten years or so. Kate always had a clear vision of what she wanted in life, a husband and a large family. Jon was more of a floater, and when an aggressive woman latched onto him (I know, loaded phrase alert) he ‘let’ himself be caught. I’ve seen it happen.
Then the inevitable began; she began to hate the very thing about him that made him such an easy catch. He’s a floater with little ambition and no balls, and what woman can respect that? So she began to shred what little backbone he had into bits, nitpicking, taunting and criticizing him relentlessly. I would *never* let any other human talk to me the way she talks to him, as if he is a dog. Please don’t mention her in the same breath as Hillary Clinton; no comparison.
For his part, he let himself be caught by Kate because it seemed like a good idea at the time, (he was only 21) then he let her do whatever she wanted, going along with it because it it was simply easier than fighting her. He doesn’t know how to argue, so he just went silent. Not an excuse, but an explanation. Then, like the good passive-aggressive weenie he is, he sidestepped responsibility. She talked him into quitting his job ‘for the family’, and he lost whatever was left of his poor shreds of masculinity. (I’ve seen this *almost* happen IRL).
Her ambition, once solely focused on having children, is now glowing in the public spotlight, but she wants the part of the spotlight she wants, and all the negative shit is making her angry, so she is letting him take all the blame because she has little or no ability to see herself in the cold hard light of truth.
Lots of blame for both, and a complete lack of self-knowledge on both parts.
However… that is just from my observations based on what I’ve been seeing, and I know darn well we don’t see 80% of what is really going on. And for the record, the brunt of childcaring has never been solely on her shoulders – nor his – since the Figure 8 company (production company) has paid lavishly for nannies and housekeepers for a couple for years now, though they rarely show that on tv any more (they did at first, but there was a lot of criticism of how much time the kids spent with people not their parents, and it didn’t jibe well with the public image of a ‘cozy’ family unit).
Is Kate a bitch? Yeah. But a strong counterpart as husband would have stood up to her and together they likely could have become a strong unit. A weenie like Jon just reinforced all her negative traits, rather than forcing her to be accountable. As for Jon, I think he was ‘doomed’ to end up with a strong woman, or he would just float through life. Unless he grows a pair, he will just become a bitter whiner.